How different would anime be today if NGE never existed?

Evangelion is garbage written by committee with no consistent story or sanity. And now, thanks to all the BS of the original series, 3.33 has successfully destroyed the film franchise. But I’m sure delusion says otherwise.

All “symbolism” in Eva is accidental. The show was dictated by committee and constantly shifting to match fan expectations. It was created in the worst way possible. It is a boring, pretentious, insane mess. The movies were faring MUCH better, with 2.22 being one of the best anime movies I’ve ever seen… but the 3rd movie had ZERO “character development” and was 99% empty mythos babble that was not explained, established, foreshadowed, or explored in the slightest. It’s as though the movie remake expects the audience to have watched the entire series and understand all the nonsense being spat onto the screen. Well, if that’s the case, THEN WHY BOTHER WATCHING THE MOVIE?! If they’re going to devolve into the exact same crap that made the series so convoluted and incomprehensible, why bother? But yes, I must be too “retarded.” Clearly. Thank you for demonstrating what I hate about Eva fans and the series in general. Everybody makes empty, unsubstantiated claims that there’s all this meaning and symbolism, but when I challenge them on it, they scream obscenities and call names. Because that makes you right.“

“To conclusively prove my point, I only need three words: End of Evangelion. The writers, director, and everybody behind the project had so little concept of any significance behind what they were doing that they had no inkling whatsoever of how to resolve it. Even after trying TWICE. That tells me that they were making it up as they went along and had no grand intentions, plans, or message. None. The creators themselves have no idea what either of the endings mean, both of which contradict each other and make everything A MORONIC MESS OF COLOSSAL PROPORTIONS. I have sat through lectures by UNIVERSITY PROFESSORS on the relevance, symbolism, and profundity of Evangelion, but by simply checking those sentiments, no matter how well-studied, against the simple facts of how Evangelion was created, it is all exposed as made up one-sided interpretation made possible by the still-prevalent mindset of postmodern criticism (i.e., the original creators’ intentions are not of higher importance because there is inherent equal significance and importance in the unrelated personal interpretations of everyone else). Ultimately, if people want to watch it, get meaning out of it, and think it’s more than it is, that’s up to them. But I’m not “retarded” for calling it what it is. Because, objectively, I’m right. And nothing can change that.”

I love the show, but the copycats that came after have ruined this type show for me.

“Another weird quirk of Hideaki Anno: His abject, staunch refusal to write an ending for any story he tells until he gets to the ending. That is the sole reason for why the ending of Evangelion is an unmitigated disaster mess. The most criminally perpetrated myth in all of anime culture is that Evangelion ran out of budget at the end, so the final episodes became what they are. That is patently untrue. In the midst of writing the final six episodes–and not before–Anno became arbitrarily interested and then, subsequently, obsessed with psychology. His intent was to then, regardless of what came before, cram that into the final episodes of the show as much as possible. The final episodes of Evangelion are EXACTLY what he wanted to be. It’s a fact. So, love him or hate him, he is a fool when it comes to storytelling by his own design.”

What does that have to do with what I said?

All of the more blatant Evangelion ripoffs were bad

It means I agree peabrain

Yup.

@201407177
>Expecting me to read your autistic rambling when the first sentence is already factually wrong

“This show defined American film and anime for the next generation by showing how easy it is to get a fanboy to part with their money when you have convinced the viewer that they are watching something deep by looking like a bad acid trip and properly pacing the sex and explosions. It's no surprise that Michael Bae claims to be a fan.“

No need to be rude.

> - autistic weeb manchild from Yas Forums
Why should I listen to what he says over industry experts?

It’s not my rambling actually, it’s from this guy that does a review series called “Animerica”.

Link: m.youtube.com/channel/UCl5fqLiYPaBc0bbq0JmIVig

Madoka is like Eva in that regard.

I’m not “from” Yas Forums. Unlike others I don’t spend all my time on Yas Forums.

>over industry experts?

You think industry experts never lie? What about Rotten Tomatoes giving Star Wars the Last Jedi a high score?

Evangelion is extremely popular with useless nerds who think that throwing random Christ imagery and flashing random Japanese text on the screen in a cartoon about giant robots is deep and meaningful and who think that it is perfectly acceptable for a director to get 50 hours of screentime and still not be able to tell a story. The best way to troll Evangelion fans is to refuse to see the movie. This makes them butthurt. Not to mention that Evangelion is an uncreative rip-off of Ultraman, just with more colors and misconstrued teen angst.

>Evangelion invented or popularized waifu culture
Excuse me?

Stay there frogredditer

Then get the fuck out of here.

Alright, I'll bite. What does Ultraman have to do with Evangelion?

>On one side, it depicts the “real” emotional conflicts of a teenager, and battle scenes are also highly realistic

such a perfect blend of both, even in the anime series and not just EoE, so many scenes look like you're watching something that's live action. It's easy to get bogged down in the plot but god damn does Eva still look better than pretty much any series I've seen in the past 20 years

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To say it would be very different would be an understatement.
I wager works like Nausicaa would've had greater influence than they did.
Nevertheless, it is foolish to ignore that NGE shaped anime, for better or worse.
In my personal opinion, it's one of the best, if not THE best out there. The closest thing that reaches NGE levels is the Nausicaa manga, and even then, it's not as good. I would call NGE perfect if its endings weren't consistently botched.
Imagining anime without NGE is like imagining engineering without WW2. It's impossible.

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I think an interesting point that is often made regarding Eva's symbolism is that it was all accidental which is statistically unlikely considering the religious symbolism largely corresponds to the religious themes. It may be that the creators possessed nothing other than superficial knowledge of that which they injected into the series - and this very likely could be the case - but the symbolism and theme appears consistent nonetheless. Even the message that the story conveys, while we know it stems from Anno's own psychological problems and his knowledge of psychology itself, interestingly maintains a similar consistency when it implies a normative posit regarding how one should view reality and how one should act within it.

My question, though, would be this: if the imagery, the theme, and the message maintain reasonable consistency in the forms of christian esotericism, kabbalism, gnosticism, and neoplatonism, what is the relevancy of the emphasis put on the fact that it was accidental? Why is this even consequential?

Less pseudo-intellectual teens in anime communities.

this, too.

1995 was where anime took a wrong turn

if it wasn't for KyoAni getting things back on track in the mid 2000s, anime would be in a dark place now.

hard agree

Not that different.
Waifuwars didn't even start with Evangelion, although I do agree that it's never been as bad as it was (and still is) with Asuka and Rei. At least in Occident, I don't know about Japan.
Late anime and adult experimentation would've happened with or without it. Escaflowne had a great impact and there were many guys at Sunrise trying to go that way, among them Shinichiro Watanabe. It was simply a matter of having an anime that proof successfully enough to do it, as Yamato and Gundam had proven in the 70s that you can do long arc stories meant for young adults.
That's not to say that I think Evangelion is bad or anything, just that the fanwankers criminally overrate it's significance.

I'm not that user. But if you don't know that honestly you shouldn't even argue. You are absolutely clueless and you should research more. To properly engage you would be a huge waste of time.

Tldr?

Don't know, don't care.

No shit anime like Fafner and other eva clones. No kudere archetype either. German-speaking tsunderes like Rin Tohsaka would probably not exist either. I'd call it a better timeline to be honest

>Whatever we discuss today, we cannot avoid Eva
Agree.

>After Eva ended, there were a mountain of shows similar to it, but all they did was trace the details
Yeah, no shit. That happens with every successful product in any industry, not only in anime. How many bands attempted to copy the Beatles and fell short? How many anime attempted to copy Gundam and fell short? How many attempted to copy Macross, itself very influenced by Gundam and fell short?

>Shinkai, 39, cites Evangelion, Hideaki Anno's coming-of-age epic of childhood betrayal at the hands of misguided adults, as having taught him "anime doesn't always have to be about crazy movement and a lot of action. Sometimes it is also about the words or even the lack of words, things not being spoken.
Was Evangelion the first, though? I remember watching some episodes of the von Trapp family and there was a lot of things conveyed by merely gestures by the characters. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened in shows from the 70s, specially in the shoujo / WMT area.

>Evangelion is the endpoint of the post-war lineage of otaku favorites : from Godzilla to the Ultra series to Yamato to Gundam.
That I wholeheartedly agree with. Although Gainax had been hinting that before (Gunbuster and Otaku no Video). But in Evangelion everything came together perfectly. And this is the point of Evangelion. This is what makes it so fucking great. It's not that it created a lot of new things, it's that it brought so many things that already existed together. You don't need to be smart or deep to appreciate it. You need to know where it comes from.
When you watch Evangelion, even if it is your 2nd, 3rd or 20th watch after watching tokusatsu (specially Ultraman), giant robot series, science fiction movies and read science fiction books you see how deeply Gainax loves and homages those worlds. Furthermore, I believe that's what made Gainax so special in the whole decade of the 90s.

Anno doesn't know how to end things.

Less pretentious shit but everything else would be the same

Exactly the same except when someone makes a shitty anime and calls it the deconstruction of a genre people won't spam "congratulations".

In my opinion that is false.

Christianity has had so many heresies or sects or alternative beliefs or however you want to call it during history that anything you do with some philosophical content can be linked to at least a dozen of them; and most of them will have roots in greek or roman philosophy nevertheless, and might even be influenced by Arabian or Asian religious people or philosophers. I think a lot of it wasn't meant by the authors and was brought by the fans.

It's ultimately meaningless, because Evangelion is not about that. The problem are those retards who insist that Evangelion is special because of it.

He (or you) asked for TLDR, I gave him (or you) TLDR. Not my opinion. You don't agree? Fine. Take it with

* Take it with .

keep the eva threads coming boys

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Anyone knows where that Asuka pic comes from?

neon genesis evangelion

Okay? Also, it seems like you (or him) have only seen evangelion and for some reason are assblasted by it. You know, he has plently of other works? For example live-action films, they are standalone so it was all planned. You do realize most movie franchises, tv series, and especially most of anime is not ALL pre-planned in the beginning? I don't know what your problem is.

I see a lot of Evangelion haters attack the plot and even though personally i think it's interesting and outstanding from a lot of at least popular anime, I thought majority of true fanbase like the show because of the message and characters' feelings/emotions. Plot is just a wrapping paper and secondary, that's why you need to either watch the show 3 times or read about it to understand it. I honestly never understood why is it so popular and what is there for average person, it would just seem boring, I'm glad that a lot of people watched it though.

Fafner is literally better than Eva tho.

>I think a lot of it wasn't meant by the authors
I would agree but only to an extent. At least on some superficial level, they must have had some knowledge of the symbolism and the general themes in these philosophies and so forth. There is simply too much continuity for pure coincidence to be statistically probable. It's very unlikely, though, that these nips had such proficient knowledge in the field so as to have planned every single correlation

>Evangelion is not about that so the aforementioned is meaningless
I think this claim is a little disingenuous. Certainly, the unintentional aspect of it all takes away from the profoundness especially from the perspective of the piece as "art," but I wouldn't say that it's ultimately meaningless because of that seemingly factual statement (that, at least to some degree, the cohesion was unintentional). The issue for me is related to the answer of the "What is eva about?" question which, if the lack of intention is anything to go by, remains not entirely unambiguous. Most readily, it would appear that Eva's message - what Eva is about - is intimately related to instrumentality and Shinji's experience with it. Would you agree with this statement?

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italian weebs would not sing the intro song

>Budget running out isn't true
Then why does the show degrade into sketches and what seem like crayon paintings? Surely you could have your pretentious ending without that happening

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I think I'm going to have non-consensual sex with Hideaki Anno.

I am decided: Hideaki Anno will be raped within the month. I will devote myself to finding out his residency, his routines, and I will plot and plan my moment of violation meticulously. This is a very real goal I have set, and I shall know neither rest nor mortal satisfaction until it has been attained.

If you think about it, how is Hideaki Anno different from a woman? They are equally timid. Equally frivolous. Equally acquiescent. Equally narcissistic. Equally upset by a combination of words or ideas that do not conform to the status-quo. And no doubt Mr. Anno has sucked a penis too--maybe just a silicon one (for now), but nevertheless he has tried it; has been struck with the same sort of 'oh-i'm-so-so-naughty' inclination that seizes all women at some point in their life and with the frenzied tom-tom of feminine sexuality blaring in their head which is only ever empty and only ever filled when the image or implication of a Penis can be grasped in external reality, and just like such a woman has Hideaki Anno greedily taken hold of the dildo that he secretly keeps in his top drawer (why disguise it further? why, wouldn't he be happy if someone were to discover his little perversion? oh think of how oh so so naughty that would be!) and after taking the full 7.5" of rubber down his throat he is filled with such a thrill such that no expression of his "masculine" sexuality has ever come close to attaining.

Hmm, indeed, the lines between Woman and Hideaki Anno continue to blur, and my dick continues to rise. Raping him could be ethically and epistemologically justified, both through Utilitarian ethics and Platonic Teleology, but I will not go into that here. Suffice to say that raping Hideaki Anno would be a net benefit for the world as such, as material entity and conceptual ideal. It would be a rape that would satisfy so many hearts, so many minds, and most importantly my own penis.

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Not much different.

It falls in well into the theme of psychological deconstruction of characters. Anno is not the first one to use such artistic tool for such purpose, although I cannot think of prominent examples of the top of my head rn.

There's no fucking way they didn't run out of budget, the previews for the last episodes are EoE shit and aren't seen in the series.

EoE was supposed to be its ending but time and budget ran out so they made it work by having it take place during instrumentality.

Isn't that funny that after over 20 years now we still have that same discussion everyday?

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