Are there any shows or manga that are deconstructions/subversion of genres and tropes but instead of the usual insufferable "humor" or edgy grimderp bullshit, the deconstruction/subversion is achieved through the making everything as banal as possible or with characters aware of the plot and refusing to play along with it? Things like:
>magical girl subversion but instead of edgy little girl death, the subversion is that the little mascot creature only gave them the ability to summon a transformation sequence and no real power beyond that, so anytime there's a monster attack they have to laboriously walk to wherever it is only to discover that the police or in some cases JSDF have already taking care of the problem and they aren't needed at all ever and the girls get sick of this while the mascot doesn't get the hint
>depressed schmuck hates his modern Japanese life and jumps in front of a truck, then he ends up getting reincarnated into a magical fantasy world and expects to use this as a chance to experience a more interesting and better life only to discover that this magical fantasy world is just modern Japan cosplaying as a D&D manual and there is fundamentally nothing different or any opportunity to become the world's greatest adventure hero like anyone else that gets reincarnated in a fantasy world
Are there any shows or manga that are deconstructions/subversion of genres and tropes but instead of the usual...
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Why would you want to read something purposefully made boring?
>Are there any shows or manga that are deconstructions
No.
I guess otome villainess series have a main character trying to avoid her bad endings. It has become it’s own cliche genre at this point though.
I don't know about a show or a manga, but there's an extra chapter of Kaguya sama that is exactly like you described.
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OP thinks it's clever to subvert the idea that fiction is entertaining.
Other concepts:
>Gender Bender but where the guy who is turned into a girl absolutely refuses to play along with any of the antics that the rest of the cast want him to get involved in and the entire story ends with him undoing the transformation and going on with his life while also cutting out absolutely everyone that wanted him to get involved with stupid antics
>SOL where the meme trap character is ignored by everyone until he gets depressed and abandons the crossdressing schtick, is suddenly voiced by a guy now, and finds out that everyone ignored him because they all thought his crossdressing was obnoxious and now that he stopped they'll finally consider acknowledging him as a person instead of the white plastic deck chair they saw him as before
>literally any interesting plot and set up in a school setting but we follow background characters that sit in the front corner of class by the door in a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead arrangement while the exciting plot goes on in the background
Why would you want to watch something that's purposefully made to be violent and depressing?
Bokurano: Ours is a subversion of kids piloting mechs, but it depends on what you level of edgy is at least in terms of tolerance. It's more psychological horror. The kids have to take turns piloting a robot, in which they fight an alternate dimension earth, but the twist is of course it costs them their life. The subversion is of course, even though they really have no choice, they kinda do, but if they don't show up for the fight, and one of the chosen pilots isn't dead both universes are destroyed, so they have the weight of the world on their shoulders and everyone saying "go die for us". While some of the episodes are generic with the token "he refused to show up, so we had to kill them", there are a few gems.
Now that is the kind of banal I like. If only it was stretched out into an entire series.
Some are to be fair, just trash, fetish insertion, cruelty for the sake of cruelty. But every now and then you do get some genuine concepts and premises that border genius. It's only the execution in which it could've been done better.
>but it depends on what you level of edgy is at least in terms of tolerance.
>It's more psychological horror
Unless the psychological horror is thpat everyone thinks there's in evil ghost or monster but it's just in everybody's heads and they genuinely can stop having the psychological horror at any time consequence-free but choose not too because they're just that thick, its edgy crap to me.
I don't think that would work desu. But anyway The Disastrous Life of Saiki K has some of the elements you are searching
And usually whenever I bring up that type of stuff in conversation with people, they usually act like my desire for a better execution on a concept is "runing the good idea I not getting the entire point of it." For example, magical girls with Faust is an excellent idea, but I think PMMM was fucking dog shit in execution and can't understand why people praise it for the "bittersweet hopeful blah blah blah," For me, the better execution would be the final cosmic reset involves a new timeline where every single thing desired from every single Faustian bargain in the history of the world was going to happen anyway if the wisher just waited longer. Faust already had everything he sold his soul for. That was the drama of the story.
Another thing that apparently I don't understand is Hibane Renmei because "it's not supposed to be explained, you watch it for the comfy mood" when the thing is, it's very obvious that the whole thing is a purgatory allegory, but it's still creates a world of questions about the finer points of the world presented that should probably be answered if the points are going to exist, for example every question that could come into your head about the relationship between the angels and the normal humans and how the angels are 2nd class citizens, but they are never answered and apparently you're not supposed to think these are questions to ask
Literally me
>are there any anime/manga series that are insufferably boring
Yes.
By design, not by consequence. Battle Shonen is boring by consequence, the authors didn't start their stories with the intent of making something that is boring and shits on tropes they hate.
Your idea for Madoka sounds like garbage.
Haibane Renmei is not about purgatory. You're somehow retarded enough to have been misled by the superficial "angel" imagery into thinking it's anything remotely Christian. Also the whole point is that they're there to learn about themselves, not about the world.
Why do you think that would be a remotely good idea?
How about instead we brainstorm ways to make actually scary manga
>Haibane Renmei is not about purgatory
>all of these angel things have to achieve a day of flight where they leave the walls of this city, but some never leave because they are sinbound
Yes, clearly not a purgatory allegory. Clearly.
>Also the whole point is that they're there to learn about themselves, not about the world.
But they don't learn anything about themselves. They're all born, told "you're a haibane, you live in squalor and work for free" and they just go along with it. Hell, when Kuu flies halfway through the show, it's a shocking revelation because we never had any idea that would happen. Despite being something that any freshly hatched Hibane should be informed about as much as they are on the "you work for free and can't use new things" arrangement. Maybe if Rakka was a cynic aware of the kind of bullshit JJ Abrams Mystery Box artsy plot she showed up in, it would make up for some of the issues. And frankly, if the only thing I'm supposed to be intrested in is the characters learning about themselves, which they don't even do because you can barely define what the characters are as they're all just boring slabs that don't do anything, why not just put them all on a big boat in the middle of the ocean with no normal humans at all and have them learn that way? If you're not supposed to care about the setting, then make the setting devoid of anything possibly questionable
>never leave because they are sinbound
False. Pay more attention.
It's about reincarnation, which is not remotely Christian.
>Despite being something that any freshly hatched Hibane should be informed about
What? Why?
Why are you so fixated on the "mystery"? It's just a town. It's not even that fantastical.
>False. Pay more attention
OK, please explain how it's not a purgatory state and its about reincarnation when all the symbolism says otherwise. Or are you just going to pull a cop out and say something to the line of "if you don't get it, you just don't get it?"
>It's just a town.
Yes, it's just a town but it has just enough things in that just a town that are questionable. Like the 2 different groups of people living there and how one is very clearly an underclass. Or the fact that everyone is stuck inside of walls that they can't leave. And the implication that there is a world outside the walls containing many other cities with an entire federation that runs a global institute dedicated to these Haibane things and masked bands of trade emissaries travel from town to town as the only ones who can leave the town.
If none of this matters, then why was it ever included in the first place?
The problem with these idea is that none of them makes for feasible for a long term story once the charm of the gimmick runs off. Why even write those characters in the first place if you're just going force characters deal with negative/mundane circumstances dispite being traditionally equipped to function in said scenario. Its obnoxious and deconstruction troupe for the sake of standing out is shit writing as well.
>Why even write those characters in the first place if you're just going force characters deal with negative/mundane circumstances dispite being traditionally equipped to function in said scenario.
Plenty of shows do that already and are considered great by the plebs
>see some people talk about Bonnouji on here
>read it yesterday
>romance manga
>no drama whatsoever
>entire manga is two people growing closer while doing mundane everyday bullshit and hanging out with their mutual friends
The symbolism is precisely why it's reincarnation. They're born from cocoons. Glie is a cocoon. The whole point is for them to grow to prepare for their next life. Also the fact that birds and traders can go outside suggests that beyond the walls is a real, regular place and not a transcendental afterlife.
>one is very clearly an underclass
No? Stop being a class-war obsessed Marxist.
>everyone is stuck inside of walls
See above. Cocoon.
>an entire federation that runs a global institute
What the fuck?
>The whole point is for them to grow to prepare for their next life.
Literally the same point as purgatory
>No? Stop being a class-war obsessed Marxist.
Interestingly, I'm not. The reason I care is because I wish there was at least some word of of the characters in the story caring. Perhaps replace the segregation of haibane males from females because of some shenanigans in the past with the more interesting "Some rowdy Haibane didn't get the point of Glie and tried stage a revolution to be treated as equal before getting cosmically bitchslapped for it somehow because they weren't getting the point"
>See above. Cocoon.
Remember how I said "why not just put them all on a big boat in the middle of the ocean with no normal humans at all and have them learn that way?" That just raises the question of why the humans are there at all, why can't they leave?
>what the fuck
Again, the show implies that there are more cities beyond Glie and the title is literally Charcoal-feather Federation. And they make mention of there being a federation of charcoal feathers. And the masks trader guys that go out of Glie serve the federation. So does the interpreter dude. The interpreter dude even speaks of the federation like it's a grander organization than just him and the Glie. But if none of that matters, why was it included in the first place?
>already happens but with girls when they genderbend to boys
>already happens in old shoujo where the crossdressing is clearly portrayed as a phase or tied to some issue
>that one 3d show about the magical girls but it followed three normak boys anyway, and When Supernatural Battles Become Commonplace
Go check out Im Gay but Have a Harem. It's pretty much the same thing. The real punchline is the best part.
Closest that comes to mind for me is Yūusha ni Narenakatta Ore wa Shibushibu Shūshoku o Ketsui Shimashita or "I Couldn't Become a Hero, So I Reluctantly Decided to Get a Job." It's a comedy, so I guess doesn't fulfill your requirements, but a lot of the comedy is specifically from the shift from heroic to banal. Eventually you get to some more fantasy stuff near the end, but it sticks to the initial premise much longer than say "The Devil is a Part-Timer" which despite a kinda similar idea, quickly moves into super powered fights.
>Why would you want to watch sad fiction?
>Why would you want to watch boring fiction?
One of these is clearly a more reasonable question than the other.
>I think Madoka was dogshit, the better execution would be changing the ending to be the same thing but a bit happier
That sounds like a really fucking dumb reason to hate a whole series.
>Literally the same point as purgatory
Purgatory means there is no "next life", just the afterlife.
>I wish there was at least some word of of the characters in the story caring
Again, why? You seem to want it to be part of some grandiose narrative, but it isn't.
>why not just put them all on a big boat in the middle of the ocean with no normal humans at all and have them learn that way?
It seems the point is for them to lead relatively normal lives. The regular people are clearly important to this. A giant boat would be a weird distraction that served no purpose.
>Charcoal-feather Federation
The Haibane Renmei is the old guys in the monastery like place. I guess it's implied there are other similar groups in other places, but only briefly. And if so they're only in touch by the traders passing along messages. Not really what I'd call a global institution.
>why was it included in the first place?
To provide some guidance for Haibane that needed it.
Fuck the guy you were replying to. I'm with you and your assessment. Shit could have been done better and I wished they answered more questions, but the mood they created was just right.
underrated
These ideas are pretty crap to be honest. I don't know how you came to believe that having these things would in any way make better stories.
Fap to Eroguro threads.
Maintaining shit from our world in fiction is fucking lame.
>Purgatory means there is no "next life", just the afterlife.
Not him but heaven is the "next life" after purgatory. You'd have to be splitting hairs to the power of a billion to argue that.
I wouldn't have interpreted your question with a example like that. All you did is remove some of the superpower that characterized said magical girl.
If you want to subvert it, you need to keep all the superpower that allow to define it as the trope, but use them in way that's both logical and yet still fit the recipe.
Not really Yas Forums but the webcomic Megatokyo did a good job of subverting magical girl.
She fit everything you'd expect a M-G to be and do, but nothing said she have to follow extra rules.
Btw, the big women next to her is a retired MG who lost her power she sacrified them to save a boy she love, but didn't get the happy ending.
Worth mentioning, the in-setting police shit themselves because they DON'T want to shoot those cute girl (or at least not it they can avoid it).
I actually have an idea for this- so basically:
>Giant Robots
but the main character is...
not the pilot, she's the safety inspector
Wasn't there a manga where a guy helps set up girls together but some of them fall for him anyway or some shit?
>megatokyo
Wow I feel old
Is this technically considered a deconstruction?
Super robot mecha where the robot looks powerful, even has its own hotblooded theme song, and has so-called "lore" and history, but it's actually just a giant hollow toy with no combat capabilities at all and the pilots only manage to achieve victory by doing absolutely nothing or by scaring people away by making them think it really is a super robot.
or how about, a SOL show about cute girls doing cute things. Then on episode 8 a school shooter kills half their class. Flash forward 8 years to see where they all end up: in the police, living a normal life but with ptsd, suicided from guilt, and one of them is in a band. It's kind of like K-On
No. Kind of...
I'd say Robotics; Notes is a pretty good example of mecha deconstruction. Well- all up until the episode where the solution literally falls from the fucking sky- and it's never explained or talked about ever again. I'm serious. It just falls from the sky.
I have a story idea where we follow a UN security officer whose job is to manage "abnormal person". We follow her story as she use drones in various place of the world to supervise, help or keep them safe.
May them be heroes, genius, esper, protector spirit, thinking animal, haunted house with a mind, magical girl...etc
That way I would skip through all the boring part and only be there when there's some epic adventure somewhere.
>Purgatory means there is no "next life", just the afterlife.
The afterlife IS the next life jackass.
>Again, why?
Because even the nearer to the does have isn't compelling because it's not compelling to the characters themselves. If they don't really seem to care about the world they are and, why should I? If they don't care about their state in life, why should I? If they don't care about anything going on in their lives, why should I care about it?
>A giant boat would be a weird distraction that served no purpose.
You said the point of Haibane is learning about themselves, not the world. The boring ass boat setting means you aren't distracted by a world of questions about power dynamics and lore you're not supposed to ask.
>And if so they're only in touch by the traders passing along messages. Not really what I'd call a global institution.
The British Empire was a global institution and all the colonies kept in contact with Buckingham Palace through slow as fuck sail mail prior to electronic communication.
>To provide some guidance for Haibane that needed it.
Funny how that never really happens. Otherwise the day of flight wouldn't have come out of fucking nowhere and Rakka wouldn't get sinbound over Kuu. Or at the very least she, she would and it would be seen as a character flaw by the audience rather than a justified reaction that gets brushed off in universe as "lol why did you care? You're not supposed to care"
These ideas are so dumb. It's like trying to be more clever than a subversion show in the most shallow way possible, and meanwhile said subversions end up being magnitudes smarter. Even at the most basic level there's actually something worth writing about in these stories after the subversion is revealed, but these ideas are just the subversion itself to no meaningful end.
The point is the difference between a perpetual afterlife and a continuing cycle of rebirth. The former is Christian, and the latter is suggested by the show.
>but the main character is... not the pilot, she's the safety inspector
Reminds me of Dai-Guard, which is more about the work crew behind the logistics, office politics, and maintenance of a powerful robot rather than the actual robot
>All you did is remove some of the superpower that characterized said magical girl.
Funny, I feel like I did the exact same thing that things like PMMM, Raising Project, and Yuki Yuna all did only with a more sardonic comedy bend than a HUR DUR IT MATURE N DEEP CUZ THE LITTLE GIRL DIED grimderp bend
those magical girl anime would be less shitty in average if they broke their fanservice rule more often.
>The afterlife IS the next life jackass.
Again, it's a totally different "next life" from reincarnation.
The world isn't supposed to be particularly compelling. That's what I've been fucking telling you. Are you god damned retarded or what?
>boat
Being stuck on a boat is very far from the normal life that I just fucking said was the fucking point.
>British Empire
Had a massive system of constant communication, not hanging around waiting for someone passing by to carry a couple of letters.
yeah- you're thinking along similar lines. But the thing is- I really fucking hate how much paperwork I have to do at this job. If going to the restroom were considered a hazard I'd have to sign to flush.
From that angle then, I can only imagine how much fucking paperwork there would be to even operate a Labor. Let alone when your pilot goes and destroys half the fucking neighborhood. Meryl and Milly made being insurance auditors funny in trigun, so- you know.
I probably have the school shooting thing happen around at the end of ep 3, and the next 10 episodes are eight years later.
And the way the shooting happens is just that some guy opens the classroom door and brandishes a gun and then it cuts to black with the next episode starting 8 years later.
Though similarly, I also had an interesting idea for a CGDCT show called Rainbow Hair. It's drawn entirely in a very photorealistic almost rotoscoped look, except for the Rainbow Hairs that are drawn in "typical anime style." And this is because in this universe, people with rainbow colored hair are basically people with downs syndrome. And acting like a shonen protagonist or a CGDCT girl is a cognitive disability many people look down on. People with rainbow hair tend to not only live much shorter lives, but also aren't even really aware that they have a profound problem. And the actual plot doesn't follow them, it follows a social worker that works with them.
I got the idea from a picture of Sad Keanu sitting next to Satania on the steps of her school
>I also had an interesting idea
Don't describe your own ideas as interesting. Particularly as the evidence here suggests they are not.
oh snap
yeah well. I can't think of a time I watched anything with downies front and center and enjoyed it.
I mean, if you want sardonic humor, have you seen/read Backstreet Girls? It's a genderbender idol manga, except instead of some hikkikomori getting a new lease on life by becoming a girl, it's a bunch of 30 year old yakuza members who see it as nothing but being stripped of their masculinity and thrown into a living hell that they have to drink themselves through.
>Again, it's a totally different "next life" from reincarnation.
From what's seen in the show, not really. You're just splitting hairs.
>The world isn't supposed to be particularly compelling
And yet it has far too many things that are compelling enough to question. Like how there is a breeding population of humans permanently stuck in the same city that Haibane are just expected to serve as second class citizens. Even passing lines of dialog that just kind of acknowledge that this is a situation that exists and brushes it off with the most basic explanation would go miles in making the problem of bad world building disappear
>Being stuck on a boat is very far from the normal life that I just fucking said was the fucking point.
Not really, they still have to maintain the boat. And another thing of note is that because it's just a boat in the middle of the ocean and every newlyborn Hibane on the boat can be told "we don't know where the boat goes or where it comes from, just that for as long as we can remember, we Haibane have been coming and going from the boat through their eggs and day of flight"
And without any of that pesky world building to care about
>Had a massive system of constant communication, not hanging around waiting for someone passing by to carry a couple of letters.
To the eyes of the common pleb in London, it was no different than the Toga
So subversion of subversion? What for? Just to show how smart and unique you are? Lol