I've been watching Dragonball for the first time in my life (only ever seen Z growing up) and this show is significantly better than anything that happened in Z and onwards by far.
Why is it only powerlevels and saiyan shit gets remembered?
Dragonball
because Saiyans transfrom thus is cool and powerlevels,by some people, is a measurement of power to argue with. But in the end powerlevels are bullshit anyways.
Because america got z first
no people whine about DB all the fucking time, oh it was much better
oh the fights were better
oh the piccolo saga
oh the jokes was better
oh bulma and yamcha
oh my god
>Why is it only powerlevels and saiyan shit gets remembered?
Mexicans aren't exactly known for their intelligence.
Because it's simply not true. I'll give you that the single best fight in the entire manga was Goku vs Piccolo Jr in the 23rd budokai, but as a story, the best arc in DB was Saiyans and Namek. The original is better than anything in part 2 after Frieza's defeat though, that much is clear.
I can agree with this.
No shit dingus, Dragon Ball started as a comical adaptation to the Journey to the West. It wasn't meant to be full of power-up and meaningless fights, but jokes and adventurers. Toriyama completely gave up on that during the saiyajin arc.
Red Ribbon Arc is best arc of Dragon Ball. During it Toriyama subverts power-up:
>Goku needs super water from Korin so he can get power-up and defeat Taopaipai
>but Korin is only willing to give to Goku only if he can take it from him
>Korin is too fast for Goku
>therefore, Goku has to train his speed to match Korin
>he trains non-stop and finally manages to take the water
>he drinks and leaves
>he defeats Taopaipai easily
>Korin later reveals that the water was just regular water, and all Goku needed was determination and training to defeat his enemy
would be shame if Toriyama started giving power-ups to characters after subverting it
Dragon Ball Z was awful branding. It should be:
>Dragon Ball: Goku's Adventures
Start of series to King Piccolo
>Dragon Ball Extreme
Piccolo Jr. to Frieza
>Dragon Ball The Afteryears
Android Saga
>Dragon Ball Why?
Buu Saga/EoZ
Then GT and Super are like those Brady Bunch movies from the 90s no one asked for but you feel really bad for not totally hating them and their Flanderized characters.
Get the fuck out. The RR arc was boring as shit and among the worst arcs in the manga in general.
Also, Tao beats Goku during their match because Goku is full of rage after witnessing Tao murdering his friend, and Goku would have defeated him if his anger didn't prevent him from concentration (during their second match he is calm). Would be shame if Toriyama made rage-power up, that would undermine the entire point.
>hating Goku fights Yas Forums
because early Dragonball wasn't fully translated until years later. Dragonball Z is fueled by nostalgia in the west
Early dragonball has some really good moments.
My favourite so far is Jackie Chun giving up the fight and denying Tien the satisfaction of a victory which absolutely obliterates him mentally.
>the west
Spics and Yuropoors got OG Dragon Ball, it was just Americans that were Z-centric
Super characters are flanderised but GT's are downright out of character
Goku in DB is a good character, kids can relate to him and enjoy his journey
Goku in early DBZ is a good character, kids can't relate to him, but still enjoy his journey
His place is taken by Gohan who could have been a good character and kids can relate to him
Goku in DBZ past freeza is a bad character, Gohan is an even worse character, there is no journey or development only power levels, when its clear as fuck that the author wants to drop DB.
>Why is it only powerlevels and saiyan shit gets remembered?
Are you american? Dragon Ball is fondly remembered in places like Japan, Latin America, parts of Europe like France. Americans got DB after DBZ IIRC.
Dragon Ball Z was the moment the franchise peaked (I'm not saiying in quality, but in popularity) though even in Japan. Dragon Ball (especially early on) had heavy gag and adventure influences. Dragon Ball Z had more intense action since the characters were much more powerful and more diverse scenarios (including time and space travel).
>Goku in DBZ past freeza is a bad character
Goku showed much range in the arcs after Frieza. You see him as a mature guiding figure in the Buu arc like he never was before and has a lot of father son moments with Gohan in Cell. Goku is great throughout the series.
Power levels had sense in this arc because ayyliens used technology instead of mystical martial arts, that was for a contrast.
>absent father for 7 years
>doesn't go all out during the Buu fight because he wants other people to be Earth's protectors I know there's an argument for whether or not SSJ3 could've beaten Fat Buu but let's just take what Goku said at face value and assume he could've at least done some serious damage to him
>teaches his kid the steps to some faggy dance then fucks off
Goku was at his dadliest during the Cell Saga and that's only because he was away from Gohan for so much of the Saiyan and Namek sagas. There's not a single character in the Buu saga that didnt go full retard.
Z Goku is a wuss
DB Goku was an unrepentant murder machine.
Buu is a completely unnecessary saga, DB reaching the 'who gives a fuck anymore' stage. The only good moment in it Vegita's redemption. If you count super that even deletes that moment and makes it completely irrelevant. Goku is bad character, Gohan is just beyond fucking awful. He took an incredibly huge dump on everything during Boo, he just wanted to end it, it was so obvious. I didn't even mentioned the asspulls, because I could write a book about why they were bad.
Androids and cell are a clusterfuck where the editor took a shit on Toriyama. Get two guys who can't be the antagonists because Editor-san said they are ugly. Then comes pretty antagonists who can't be taken seriously because they are teens. Then comes a bug who can't be an antagonist again, so you got perfect cell with time travel fuckery. The more I think about it the more I realize how terrible it is.
Goku is a retard and gets cardiac bypass, so Gohan can get a handjob by Toriyama. Everyone who likes it its because Gohan's rage, which happens because a random ass robot's head is destroyed? What?
Freeza had obvious pacing problems but its still enjoyable. The characters are so top notch you stomach the pacing, and still enjoy it, also the ending is very rewarding. Powerlevels make sense and its clearly explained the differences between aliens and earthlings.
>Goku is a retard
This caught my eyes and I needn't more to discard this entire wall of garbage.
You got it otherwise. GT Vegeta was all around nicer guy and followed on his development in Z.
In Super? He suddenly forgot about his Number 1 speech, and is stuck in his Cell saga self.
>I'm going to explain to you Gohan, that your hidden potential is our last acecard. I understand you are not a fighter, you never were, in fact I acknowledge you don't enjoy fighting, but you must understand you are the last hope of our planet. You are in a situation where you can't choose, you have to fight, you have to become stronger. Everything can die including you, your family, your friends, everything. You not only have to reach my level, but even surpass it, and I'll do everything for you within my abilities to improve you.
>lol just get angry
fuck you spic, fuck you
Read the manga
Dragon ball, z and super goku never would have agreed with trunks that pan needed to be sent home even for a second
>Gohan is just beyond fucking awful
fair, but this OP is kino:
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>but as a story, the best arc in DB was Saiyans and Namek
Original DB wasn't all that plot driven in the first place. It was simply a "monkey boy goes on an adventure" setting with a focus on short episodic arcs that cover a wide range miniature fantasy worlds. Like that one time Goku put a rabbit literally on the moon.
Don't really think about super, honestly its just bad. Its as a merch commercial at best, not to mention the toei's terrible animation. Probably the Broly movie is the best what came out from it, even if it had some animation fuckups.
Because that's what Toriyama is good at adventure with gags. Things get serious and the plot falls all over because it shows that its not his playfield. The guy is a genius that's for sure, but when it comes to writing serious things its just shits the bed. In saiyan saga this playfulness is still present, and there is still some of it on namek, but its so obvious that he's not very comfortable in this position, where he must reach mature themes.
>but when it comes to writing serious things its just shits the bed.
Every single Roshi speech in the original was excellent, especially when directed at Tien.
Because most people on this board are (similar to you it seems) literally to young to have ever watched the original Dragon Ball. Everyone who has agrees that it's by far the best part of the show.
This series is the proof that less is more
It must be really weird to see DBZ at first before DB
All Goku's and Z fighters deaths have less impact
and Piccollo being Gohan's teacher(daddy) doesn't have an impact at all
Z works pretty cleverly as a standalone actually. The dialogue between characters establishes a history making them feel much more lifelike and interesting from the get go. Sure it's not the same as if you've followed all of it, but the characters work well as superhero figures that you'd still want to root for them.
It's also full of retcons. Piccolo destroys the Moon, despite Muten Roshi already destroyed it during the 32nd Tenkaichi Budokai.
>and Piccollo being Gohan's teacher(daddy) doesn't have an impact at all
Eh, not really. Toriyama should have made piccolo more evil if that was the angle. Even Tien was a worse villain than Piccolo, what with breaking Yanchas leg and all. Piccolo Jr is born, doesn't do anything for 3 years, then partakes in the tournament with no casualties, and then does nothing for another 4 years before becoming Gokus ally.
I guess because toriyama already had him planned out to be an alien from back in the tournament
Didnt funimation dub and sub dragonball AFTER Z? You would have to be younger to have seen Dragonball first.
You are correct about cell saga. It swerved hard in strange directions constantly. It feels like there was no planning, so we get exposition dumped constantly.
The worst part, the one that retroactively ruins the entire feeling for me, is when Cell suicides at the end of the Gohan fight, Goku teleports him away, and then Cell suddenly, inexplicably returns from the grave, with full energy, saiyan death boost and perfect vigor. All to give a dramatic end to the fight.
Fuck perfect cell, fuck that arc, fuck the androids and fuck trunks.
Toriyama never explained what is demon (魔).
>Piccolo DaiMAo is king of demons
>Dabura is king of demons
>Majin ( 魔人) literally means demon-person
So, are demons a species? Is is it martial arts school?
Dabura comes from a parallel universe I think. And I think Buu does too
>An actual sane DB thread with level-headed discussion on Yas Forums
Amazing.
>It feels like there was no planning, so we get exposition dumped constantly.
That describes every arc after Piccolo Daimao. When Toriyama switched editors who allowed him to act as "gardener".
Enter CHADren
I'm rewatching original DB rn. So comfy. I'm at the first world tournament and Krillin just KO the stinky fucker. Extremely gross episode btw, he rubbed his hobo dick with his hand and touched Krillin.
Super is when the series really picks up, and the antagonists get better than ever
>we need a new rival for Goku
>how about a character who has a personality and generic look
Jiren is exactly what I thought Beerus was going to be in Battle of the Gods, but Beerus is a lot of fun. I remember being surprised that the movie didn't end in Goku defeating Beerus.
Why did Super and Resurrection of 'F need to exist again? Battle of Gods very well as stand-alone.
I remember when I was a kid and I begged my mom to let me watch dragon ball even though it was violent and she finally said ok and then they showed that episode lmao
Its not really less, it just focuses on what Toriyama is good at.
I like Trunks as a character, but his purpose is just so fucked up. When you pull out the time travel card its a very clear sign that you creatively shat the bed. Again the most memorable moment for most is Gohan turning super saiyan 2, but if you think about it you realize it was really just shit. Gohan sees 16 destroyed, who he never knew, then imagines a sparrow or some shit and gets angry? What the fuck man. I understand that the plot was supposed to deliver that "oh shit everything will be destroyed if I don't act" but holy fuck man, it did a terrible job. Cell is able to transform because Vegeta's retarded case where he allows Cell to transform. Trunks hulk mode, the Gohan-Goku relationship in the time chamber, Goku's stupid logic. Its all over the place. I think 17 and 18 should have been better overall, hell even Doctor Gero would have been better, but no matter how I look at it Cell is just bad, hell the whole saga is bad.
Yes, because everyone on this boad is an ameriturd. Believe it or not in europe they did it the other way around because studios are, how to put it, not retarded I guess.
Sure Z isn't as strong of a series as OG. I think a lot of that is editor meddling. I still enjoy Z and OG as separate things. Then again I'm that guy who actually likes moments from Super and GT. Not the entire show of any series DESU. They are all sorta to long to be gold from start to finish.
I often wonder if Dragon Ball into Dragon Ball Z would work for American Audiences. Like you have to remember Z was brought over in the 90's during their peak. Maybe if Ball had been more prevalent before in the 80s? I think having the more over the top ridiculous series be the prevalent one in America really helped the show. I could see myself as a kid back then being confused if I watched a episode of Dragon Ball one day. I'd have been like "Wait why is Goku a kid?"
Does anybody see what I'm getting at?
P.S. Rock the Dragon is a fucking JAM
It's ridiculous how self centered americans can get, holy shit. Have fun with your dragonrap opening
>Rock the Dragon is a fucking JAM
You're blackout drunk on nostalgia my friend. I probably would've never gotten into anime if I had to put up with shitty rap knock offs of the magnificent openings I actually grew up with
You literally summoned him by posting that, good going.
Based. Head-cha-la is a lot fucking better
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Imagine living in the united states of shitty rap knock-offs. No wonder they have so many school shootings.
Kami put the moon back while training Goku.
He also made his tail never regrow.
There are no retcons in the manga.
There are several anime fillers that become contradictory ranging from major issues like someone else making the cyborgs to minor things like king Piccolo eating solid food despite being a Namekian.
Actually like that stupid 'GOTTA GO, GOTTA GO, GOTTA GO, YO HOOOO' for One Piece. Rap verses are abysmal, but the chorus is fun.
You're right in the Rock the Dragon fucking sucks.
I kind of like Digimon's theme too, but I will admit that could 100% be nostalgia goggles
>Actually like that stupid 'GOTTA GO, GOTTA GO, GOTTA GO, YO HOOOO' for One Piece
For me it just sounds like a parody, as if who ever produced it just wanted to make fun of the show. Then again I didn't have to grow up with it so I'm looking at this from a different angle.
Is this real? At least you can argue that rock the dragon is somewhat masculine, this is just straight up gay
Screw you frogs for cursing DB with your awkward dub.
Poland went through the golden era of anime the moment we stopped dealing with italian and french dubs and instead started getting the originals with voice-over which frankly is the closest you can get to preserving the original without subs.
God good what is this abomination? It looks like something that would be found in a kindergarden sleep time playlist.
>France