"The worst sin that man can commit, is to deprive another man of his name!"

>big word scary!!

Gurren Lagann, not so good

Reminds me of code veronica

Madoka? If I wanted to watch magical girls cry I'd put on my Sailor Moon costume and look in the mirror

Monster? Now THERE's a show that needs surgery!

It's not that Johan's identity was stolen, his humanity was

Name is a form of identity as human being.
It's mercy to kill in comparison of robbing them of a key essence of being humane.
Cause in case you failed to notice, rob someone of their humanity and they may as well be a Monster.

Congratulations user for not comprehending a basic core element of writing.
Even a shit series like Akame ga Kill would be above you.

One Outs?If I wanted to watch a bunch of gay people running around I would've watched Prince of Tennis.

Johan murdered an old couple before he went to Kinderheim. Before he had any experiments of any kind even done to him.

>rob someone of their humanity and they may as well be a Monster.

And the final episode drives the point home of who the real monster actually is.

Johan? Or the people who created the environment for the monster to exist in the first place? (the storybook author who was behind the experiment.

Is The Monster in Shelley's 'Frankenstein' at fault for his crimes, or was Dr. Frankenstein responsible for going out of his way to create him in the first place?

Anyone who doesn't see the brilliance in Monster is a literal retard.

how is that relevant brother

Johan for some reason was evil and a killer before any "trauma" took place.

Johan was never experimented on by the Storybook author.
The cause of his condition and outlook was when his mother clearly valued one of the twins more than the other

What the fuck, Yas Forums, you told me this is a mature, serious and gritty anime.

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my first post meant to say, 'those kinderheim experiments that were based on depriving identity [i.e. a name, memory] gave extreme trauma to its alumni, like roberto and grimmer.' interestingly enough the only thing johan did not have was a name, and that was enough to make him more evil than any kinderheim experiment could, strengthening the idea. actually, that's the point: the reason roberto can't see the field of nothingness that johan flashes into schuwald is because he remembers liking coffee. he has an attachment to something, and in fact an older relative is looking for him still and is able to connect to him through grimmer on the basis of this fact. grimmer himself is not totally mad because he remembers... loving steiner. he has something to cling to. johan has nothing, and had nothing before he arrived at kinderheim. we still don't know his name.

well, it's not true he's got completely nothing: his sister still exists. which is why he tries to erase and inhabit her in weird ways, and explains a lot of the series. also: anna isn't anna's real name, but she lived a real life, even if falsely. i believe their mother assigning worth to life and choosing a sacrificial child gave johan his murderous impulses more than the name thing though.

also, the series is quite biblical. you may find it interesting that Adam, the inheritor of the Earth, spent his time in Eden doing mainly one thing: naming the animals. even in the slime isekai, naming something depletes mana. there's something 'spiritually' or 'metaphorically' significant there that's fairly ancient

is right
The monster can be many things, but one thing that's clear is that the cycle of deshumanization/violence/murder is one of its forms and what fuels it. When Johan's mother chose the twin she kept, it scarred Johan forever, and taught him that human live was meaningless and could be sold or destroyed.

Alright user we were having a funny joke and then you went too far, you don't talk about Kaiji like that.

>The cause of his condition and outlook was when his mother clearly valued one of the twins more than the other

Then why did he love the sibling that he viewed as having gotten more attention than him so much?

>Johan was never experimented on by the Storybook author.

He was part of a eugenics program put together by the storybook author. Even though he never met him personally until the very end, he was pivotal in Johan's upbringing by virtue of directly contributing to the circumstances in which he was raised in.

But that's the opposite. He was the sibling that stayed with his mother.
It's not that he resented anyone in this situation in particular. I don't think he loves his mother but he had some bond with his sister. It's more that this situation instilled dangerous principles in him.

>hat's the point: the reason roberto can't see the field of nothingness that johan flashes into schuwald is because he remembers liking coffee.

The scenery for a doomsday has nothing to do with fond memories of your past. Johan even admits prior to that point that he "remembers everything now".

Watch LotGH if you want mature.

"mature" is a buzzword, and there's no reason to call LOGH more mature than Urasawa.

The thing about Urasawa is, he's good but the longer he writes a series the more he turns it into a disconnected and unnecessarily convoluted, drawn out wank. By the end of Monster, Johann was a part of not one, but THREE different Aryan superman child brainwashing experiments.
He needs a better editor.

This anime gave me a privacy fetish. Now I'm obsessed with anonymity and want there to be no traces of my existence. Anyone else like that?

Yes but I got it after watching that Will Smith movie Enemy of the State

I mean, it sounds faggy but that is pretty up there
You can live on after death through the memories of others
Depriving someone of their name is effectively wiping any trace of their existence of the face of the earth, which is more than just murder taking away their body
Heck, some of the most sacred places on Earth are the memorials for those who eternally deprived of their names

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I tried showing Monster to my dad and he wasnt hooked. Ergo Monster is not mature animu.
When I think about it, the only anime he really liked is Bebop. After we finished the series I even spotted him watching the movie on his own. Thats impressive. He usually asks me to download shit, but here he was: looking for a streaming site on his own to watch this movie without me, as if it was some guilty pleasure.

It literally didn't matter. The whole show explores all the reasons Johan could be an asshole for, and then promptly dismisses them each time. Johan is just a genuine dicksucker.

Don't forget that Tenma's moral quandary that the whole series was about him constantly waffling on was rendered pointless because some drunk assfuck shot Johann, absolving Tenma of all responsibility.

This is the brain of people who shit on Monster

Don’t fall for the bait

>Reddit tier thread
KYS OP. Go back to watching Game of Thrones and RIck and Morty you giga faggot.

>"The worst sin that man can commit, is to deprive another man of his name!"
>Really? REALLY?That's the most horrible thing a human being can do to another?
It pretty much is. Name is tied to identity which is tied to humanity. There's all manner of horrible tortures that can be inflicted on a person, both physical and psychological, and just about all of them are possible for a person to endure. Many don't, of course, but enough do. But when you don't let them have their name, their identity, their humanity... it devastates them. But it takes time to really work and doesn't have the big flashy results other tortures do, so it's not on most people's radar.

I don't know why but I always thought that their mother could tell them apart from their voices so she picked Anna because she valued Johan over her, that's why Johan cared about Anna so much.

It could've easily been my favorite if it wasn't for that ending. Eugh. I was expecting an insane philosophical battle between Tenma and Johan but all we got was cheese. Why the fuck did their confrontation go like that. After 75 episodes I was so fucking ready for it too.

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well for slime it's already an embedded thing in video games. Stronger monsters of the same race have special names and special designs compared to everything else. No need to go biblical for that.

Not really. Even in the series when Capek explains the entire process beyond Anna and Johan's birth to Anna herself, he talks about her parents but doesn't even mention their names. He says "their names aren't important".

I'm happy for you user, that you and your father can connect over anime. It's an artform that already has some negative connotations in the West, and there is no shortage of Western TV shows to watch, but him having an open mind and enjoying it really shows how much he cares for you and your interests.

A name can be assigned at a later point though. Anna Liebert sticks to her adopted name "Nina". There are plenty of people throughout history, even nowadays, who are unwanted children that are put up for adoption and can get a name later. There are people who lied about their name and keep the fake one in order to avoid persecution or death (A few in my family did this). There are people like Grimmer in the series who is in the same boat Johan is in but finds a way to try his best to enjoy life and do good in it.

Johan was just a spaz and is the result of a great idea but poor execution, writing-wise.

>Johan was just a spaz and is the result of a great idea but poor execution, writing-wise.
That describes everything Urasawa has ever done

I hated how they portrayed Johan as having this superhuman ability to manipulate huge numbers of people into having total unquestioning admiration towards him to the point where they will kill others and themselves but this ability is shown to be total bullshit like him giving Roberto a cup of cocoa which he could not possibly in any way have known would affect Roberto so much, even getting past the question of how he found Roberto in the first place, how getting a cup of cocoa can turn someone into your undyingly loyal soldier forever, and a whole host of other questions. Monster is like the ultimate example of something "smart" being written by someone who isn't smart enough to pull it off so it's filled with these dumb shortcuts and detours and unresolved plot points.

The cup of cocoa was given to him by Grimmer

I honestly hate this series.

I know, that doesn't make it any less stupid.
Roberto starts emotionally breaking down talking about how Johan gave him a cup of cocoa and it reminded him of his friend and now he's loyal to Johan forever and will do anything he tells him to do? This total sociopathic assassin is going to go that far for a random dude because he gave him a cup of cocoa which caused him to have an emotional breakdown? And Johan apparently just does this to everyone, he is able to find out everyone's fucking Rosebud sled in a way that is never explained and it instantly converts them into unthinking cultists based off of him interacting with them literally 1 time. That is moronic and nonsensical and you know it.
I still enjoyed Monster but it was hugely flawed and not this masterpiece people meme it to be

As soon as Johan who was in the middle of a forest with Schuwald and Karl managed to stop dead in his tracks, and smile as he looked directly into the sniper scope that Tenma was spying on them through far away, I almost dropped the anime entirely because I knew that it was just gonna be one contrivance after another to justify lazy writing.

There are so many convenient contrivances as you put it with Roberto and the cocoa. Or the Devil's Apprentice knowing what really happened to Martin's ex-girlfriend when she shot herself even though he lied in court and said he shot her. OR WHEN MARTIN WHEN HE WAS 10 YEARS OLD LEFT HIS MOM TO DIE AFTER A NIGHT DRINKING. How the fuck do people know this shit? Even Roberto knowing all about Lunge in the ending is ridiculous. And if there really is this omnipresent criminal syndicate that keeps tabs on every single person's life in Germany, then Johan dying doesn't really mean shit because that syndicate is still going to exist, and kill and spy on anyone it likes.

Hell, Johan had no idea that Tenma wasn't going to get killed at the library. Johan would have died there too because all the exits were closed if Tenma didn't shoot the door off the hinges.

I'm okay with a villian being a step or two ahead of the protagonist, but christ almighty does Monster go overboard.

>Johann was a part of not one, but THREE different Aryan superman child brainwashing experiments.

Just two. 511 Kinderheim, and the second one doesn't really even count because it was just a eugenics program where a great soldier had kids with a brilliant scientist. Johan didn't receive any experimental treatment until 511 Kinderheim, he just sorta lived normally with his mom and sister even though they were technically held hostage there.

Roberto's only memory was that cup of cocoa so he held onto it dearly, just like Grimmer with the Steiner. If it wasn't for Johan Roberto probably wouldn't be such a bad guy, since he still had a little bit of humanity left in him. But I completely agree user the way Johan is written is fucking retarded it makes me so mad

Exactly, Johan is the guy the whole plot revolves around and he is a fucking shitty magical plot device non-character

It's not purely a matter of having a name or not, a key part of it is someone having agency over it. Anna chooses to keep going to Nina. People who live under assumed names to avoid persecution or death make the choice to do so. (It's not a very nice choice to have to make, but it is still a choice.) Anonymity and pseudonyms are another angle on this. If someone chooses not to use their real name or any name at all in a situation, that's fine and up to them. In certain instances, no identity or just a number isn't really a big deal; taking a number and waiting in line at a shop, for example; it doesn't really matter, and it's just short term.

But if someone takes you aside, tells you that your name isn't your name anymore and you have to either have no identity or one they force on you, on a permanent or long-term basis and enforce it, it's gonna be fucking unpleasant for you. Maybe not immediately, but it will be.

He is so overhyped in the series too, holy shit. Nigga doesn't even have 25% of screen-time