To clarify: I don't mean the cases where the villain is secretly a good guy, or when he/she has a change of heart and join the heroes.
I'd like to see antagonists (or anti-heroes) who are pragmatic about their goals, take reasonable steps towards the completion of said goals and have compelling reasons and motives behind their actions. They can be selfish, power-hungry and pretty villain-y in general - "reasonable" does not equal "nice" or "good".
Do you know any such characters, Yas Forums?
Reasonable antagonists thread
Grayson Lewis
Jonathan Robinson
After losing his family in a terrorist attack in a Western country perpetuated by third-world terrorists, the antagonist of Genocidal Organ literally starts convincing leaders of undeveloped third-world countries to start committing genocides on minority groups. The antagonist does this with the sole intention of sparking civil wars in the third world, which will close borders in the first world, increase racism in the first world, and heighten security world-wide so that third-world immigrants from undeveloped countries are blocked and even banned from entering first-world countries, so that terrorist attacks perpetuated by "savage" third worlders can never happen in Western countries again and that nobody in the West has to die so coldly. His end goal is for every third world country to just kill eachother while the West and Far East watches obliviously with no clue what's going on beyond "We must defend our borders from these violent people."
The protagonists even admit that the antagonist's technically correct, but stops him anyways because it's his job. Despite the antagonist's plans being thwarted, the protagonist chooses to cover-up what the antagonist did so the rest of the world doesn't know what truly happens.
Adam Moore
Antagonist does not mean villain.
Connor Stewart
Pretty much every GITS antagonist.
Angel Brooks
That sounds like an anime Yas Forums would write
except he would be the protagonist
Brandon Evans
It was actually crazy to me how the movie tries to justify and explain genocide to its audience.
Bentley Adams
No, having him be acknowledged by the protagonist only makes the message stronger.
Thomas Smith
Protagonist says that first world lives are more important than those killed in entire genocides in the third world?
Michael Wilson
he said villains
Jayden Green
Eli Turner
Of course. The antagonist might be someone who is not evil in any way, but just happened to be on the other side of the conflict.
Note that I also included anti-heroes. So, one example might be a character who is on the side of heroes, but is not afraid to get his hands dirty or do something that is considered dishonorable by his society in order to advance his or his side's goals.
Hudson Hill
Protagonist agrees on the antagonist's views on genocide and understands that in the end the antagonist is just trying to protect first-world countries. He still stops the antagonist because it's his job and he's a moralfag, but covers up to society why the antagonist did it because he understands where he's coming from.
Cameron Green
Personally, I'd nominate this guy. Of course, Black Lagoon being what it is, it's unclear whether he can be truly considered an antagonist or a villain.
That said, he's probably the sanest and most reasonable crime boss in all of Roanapur
>It's been 35 years... since this rotten harbor town became a den of vice. Roanapur has managed to stay out of CNN's evening news or the dinner topic of housewives only because... from the past to the present, the motives of those who've gathered here have always been... consistent. That is, it's in our mutual interest... to lead the public eye away from our more stimulating businesses, for the peace of mind of those who are crooked... Please remember this. If we continue suspecting each other, continue pursuing our own self-interests... who do you think will be left standing in the ring in the end? There won't be anybody there, ladies and gentlemen. Not you, not me... Not even the ring itself.
Gavin Garcia
Hello,based department?
Benjamin Reed
Sagrada's Reset fills the criteria. Honestly I was sort of shocked at how reasonable he was, how he could plan and adjust, that he had reasonable motivations and never went on a full on "I'm a villain" violence spree.
Jace Peterson
Henry Martinez
Could you elaborate? I haven't seen this yet
Benjamin Edwards
I guess he sort of fits
Nathan Barnes
He just wanted a nice healthy tan.
Colton Ortiz
Based
Evan Wright
Gavin Kelly
Dylan Wilson
Colton Murphy
This chad actually wanted a better world for everyone, it would have been a dream world, but you wouldn't even notice, you're in a dream world.
Basically what the anti spiral did to the heroes.
Gabriel Richardson
Brotherhood version.
He is literally just an amoral observer to everyone he talks to, with the goal of testing the resolve of those people.
the goal being to make sure, said people don't betray their morals, which - to his disdain - people like pride do, pissing him of and even leads to the victory of the heroes.
Connor Sullivan
Was he even in the 2003 version?
Caleb Clark
based
Christopher Morris
I don't know if he counts as a antagonist.
Camden Moore
he wanted the cunny, he made a plan to get the cunny, he got the cunny.
based
Jonathan Miller
TL;DR
NO
Jackson Jenkins
Sort of, he did try to stop the MC. He's more of a Javert type, though
Blake Baker
This motherfucker. I don't exactly like his conduct, but he's quite reasonable to Phos and the moon gems.
Grayson Gonzalez
Underrated fucking anime movie. Thought I was the only one on this god-forsaken board whom appreciates the Project Itoh films.
Eli Watson
Pain fits more. He is the opposite of the first reply - a man from the third world that got his country destroyed by the first worlders, who later preach about the amazing peace they have built and enjoy prosperity on the corpses of his family and friends. So the guy not only saved the country on his own, he basically decided to invent nukes and establish an equivalent of our post WW2 balance, while also giving more power to smaller nations of course. And he threw all of this in the face of a brainwashed first worlder protagonist. Pretty based if you ask me
Jack Barnes
En
Owen Thompson
A good friend.
Kevin Torres
(Steins;gate spoiler)
He was pretty reasonable, all things considered
Samuel Gomez
I'm surprised no one mentioned him yet
Caleb Bell
It's debatable. Lunge wants to stop Johan's actions just as much as Tenma does, he's only an antagonist because he convinced himself Tenma was the one behind said actions.
Zachary Lopez
Yes. I think he was more one-dimensional (more psychotically blowing shit up). It's been like 11 years since I watched the 2003 version, so I may be wrong.
Camden Thomas
Could you elaborate? Haven't seen these shows yet
Hudson Cruz
All Merkulov wanted was Gardarik over all.
Brayden Morgan
Wait, what ? Is that real ?
Kevin Lewis
Bondrewd fromm made in abyss.
He experiments on/with children to find a cure to a sickness/curse that befalls you when rising from the titular abyss for more than a few meters. (imagine a plastic wrap across a casm and the curse gets you when you break it by ascending)
Brody Barnes
>Dorohedoro
Main antagonist fights against the drugs and exploitation. His 'family' is lovable bunch of weirdos and he is not too strict with them, while role-playing some big mafia shot.
Protagonists in same time just killing magic users on spot, sometimes this is justified, sometimes not.
Julian Reed
>antagonist has good principles but is a bad person at core and knows it, pretty much jacks off to suffering
>tries to repress her destruction impulses but hates herself for them
>after a long character arc has to reconcile with and embrace her bad side as a legitimate part of her identity, which also reignites her passion and helps her make up with the girl she loves
>manga gets axed right after that
Being bear is suffering
Ryder Ortiz
Levi Harris
Yes the movie is called Genocidal Organ.
Ryder Gray
Twitter will explode user if they see this
Isaiah Clark
> Madara
> Juuha Bach
Watch more good anime
Wyatt Robinson
OY VEY
Mason Ortiz
Dio Brando unironically.
Lucas Reyes
Too bad the anime butchered his character with that ending
Gabriel Nguyen
Oliver Miller
So the antagonist is the hero of the story then? Based
Luke Perry
>evetybody in third world countries
That sounds so goddamn stupid. Not even morally wrong, just stupid
Connor Richardson
>First world countries actually just end up mass importing refugees from the destabilized regions causing them to be even more fucked up.
This doesn't seem like a good plan.
Nicholas Ward
>pragmatic about their goals
>take reasonable steps towards the completion of said goals
>compelling reasons and motives behind their actions.
Does Griffith count?
Juan Taylor
Yes, good example, at least where the Golden Age!Griffith is concerned
Julian Bailey
>compelling reasons and motives behind their actions.
I want power just for the sake of having it
Easton Lee
He wanted to push his limits. His actions weren't about gaining power, but to see how much he could achieve.
Asher Morris
This. Definitely one of the better examples among well known anime.