Could they have won the 5th HGW?

no way of killing herc

Snipe Illya and wait it out.

Saber can't beat Lancer without excaliblasts, at which point Bazette counters and wins.

The only walls are Berserker and Gill. They would have to kill Illya and ally with somebody to take Gill down.

Whose jobbing power is stronger, Lancer or Berserker's?

>ally with somebody
Ally with Rin; Lancer/Archer combo against Gil inside UBW until Gil gets frustrated and arrogant and uses Ea; Baz Frags him.

we all know kirei and gil would have won the war in terms of powerlevels and if they bothered to think logically so let's ignore that
rather, who out of all the 5th grail war participants had the best reason to win and why was it caster

She won in all of our hearts, user.

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Bazett managed to die to a Hassan in direct combat so not really

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They get walled by gilgamesh via being unable to make him use EA, and gae bolg isn't quite enough to take gil down. They also get walled by shirou/saber in UBW route as fragarach I refuse to believe can do shit to a reality marble, and saber simply has better stats then cu. They can win against Rin/EMIYA though specifically cause Rin would basically get instant ganked by bazett and Emiya wouldn't be able to spam UBW without a master.

If the servant who specializes in killing Masters jobbed to her, then Assassin would be utterly worthless, instead of just mostly worthless.

Saber/Shirou would actually be the easiest fight for them in any route. Saber has better stats sure but Shirou is a non-entity in combat given how physically capable Bazett is (who went against Lancer pretty much toe-to-toe) so it's essentially Saber vs Lancer and a near-Servant-tier human, and the mana Shirou would need to supply to Saber AND use UBW would burn him out pretty quick and leave Saber with very little mana to excaliblast Lancer and Bazett away. Combined with Bazett's combat experience, Saber/Shirou just cannot win against Lancer/Bazett.
On the other hand, Archer/Rin would unironically easily beat Lancer/Bazett. Just have Archer with Rin's mana and his own pooled together, and that allows him to spam UBW pretty easily, allowing him to handle both Lancer and Bazett fairly well. The biggest threat Archer would have in the matchup would be Gae Bolg, and given how how much mana he needs to sustain Rho Aias, using UBW at the same time would drain him and Rin near instantly with mana. It would be a difficult fight for both sides but the odds would be in Archer/Rin's court.

Non-serious Archer sucks. You're forgetting he got wrecked by Lancer 1vs1. Lancer manhandles Archer and Bazette manhandles Rin. Archer can only win if he goes out-of-character edgy tryhard who snipes people with Rule Breaker, which he never does.

>luck of the Irishx2
They'll lose harder than Shinji with Rider

>out-of-character edgy tryhard who snipes people with Rule Breaker, which he never does.
Did you forget the bridge scene in hollow ataraxia where he does exactly this but with Caladbolg?
You're also forgetting that Archer is a combat pragmatist. If he deemed it necessary for his Master's survival he'd do anything to win (he'd probs pull out Rho Aias for this exact reason), that's how he is. In a sneak attack, however, Lancer/Bazett would most likely have an easy win unless Archer's Eye of the Mind shit kicks in (and who knows how that works).

>Saber can't beat Lancer without excaliblasts
What makes you think this? He his ground immediately against her and they never really fight again. He probably doesn't stand a chance against her, even without her NP

*He lost his ground

Gil wasn't actually a participant, so defeating him isn't a requirement to win. He or Kirei might find her interesting and let her win just to see what she'll do with the Grail.

They could shave a few lives off Berserker at least and neither would have a problem targeting Illya to win, so it wouldn't be impossible. Also, they're both generally amicable, so they would likely accept a team-up with Rin and/or Shirou to take out the biggest threats.

In a real fight Lancer can spam Gae Bolg. He only spars in the vast majority of his fights.

>Shirou is a non-entity in combat given how physically capable Bazett is
Yes, but all it takes from Saber is a good few swings and Cu is dead. Bazett could kill Shirou sure, but Saber would still curbstomp Cu before then. Bazett would HAVE to use her Frag on Saber, its the only way she beat them in HA.

They'd win against Shirou/Saber sure, but saying it would be easy is stupid.

The thing is Lancer's skill set Archer's worst nightmare. He is too fast and agile for Archer to get away if he gets in range (which Protection from Arrows helps immensely with) and Lancer always outfights Archer in close range. Rin vs Bazett is also a liability because unless Archer assists her then Bazett will just break Rin in half and against somebody who fights like Cu he would never get the chance.

Yes. Cu can stall Herc long enough for Bazett to kill Illya.
Everyone else is a non-entity.

Servants never get the chance to spam their NP so I don't know why you would think it would happen in your fanboy wet dreams.

>fightan servants
>one uses giant fuck huge special wombo combo NP
>it misses because they're retarded or lucky or some shit
>the defending servant runs off to fight again later
This is how it almost always goes.

>so I don't know why you would think it would happen in your fanboy wet dreams.
Do you even know what Cu's NP is and how it works?

Beam spam, right? Sorry I've only seen Apo and read the wiki. What singularity does it come up in?

Well besides Gil's Gate of Babylon. He spams the hell outta that. and Saber Alter's Excalibur

America, the best singularity and the only one that matters!
Cuzilla Love!

>the mana Shirou would need to supply to Saber AND use UBW would burn him out pretty quick
Shirou can't even activate UBW by himself. He needs to fuck Rin and hand Saber over to her for it to even be possible. And if those two have gotten that far, they've already pretty much won. Saber would have lost to Cu in their first encounter anyway if they'd kept going because of the surprise bulge and her eagerness to lean on Excalibur would just seal her fate.

Archer lost to Cu when he was pulling from Caster's mana and it's straight up stated that UBW wouldn't be that effective on a normal servant. It's not a certain victory, but they definitely have the advantage in a normal confrontation.

no

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/thread

>Saber Alter's Excalibur
Secondary spotted.

>The only walls are Berserker and Gill
They'd have a chance against Gil if they can force him to use Ea. Lancer can survive up to 12 hours against gil alone, but those 12 hours were in a confined area. If the fight was taken outside then he might last longer.

It's tough being a patrician and I salute you.
I was disappointed Archer never showed rin how his Unlimited Blade Works in the original, but nothing could have prepared me for the way Baz was not shafted.

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In order to survive the Grail War, either collaboration with Shirou or Rin is necessary. If Bazett and Lancer carelessly kill off Shirou then Rin won't cooperate with them out of principle. If they carelessly kill Rin and Archer, then Shirou will consider them his enemy. Either that, or Bazett would have to wait until Berserker and Gilgamesh are off the table before she makes her move to take down Shirou, but we all know that wouldn't happen.

Caster hard counters Bazett. If Bazett tries to take the obvious route of having Lancer fight Assassin outside while she deals with the Master, she'll end up being killed by either Kuzuki or Caster. Cooperation with other Masters is necessary to fight Caster. The only one who can solo Team Caster is Gilgamesh.

Here's the general power balance:
>The only ones who can beat Gilgamesh are Shirou (conditionally, Saber (conditionally) and Archer.
>The only ones who beat Berserker are Saber (conditionally) and Gilgamesh.
>Anyone can beat Shinji and Rider.
>Caster has the most fortified position out of all the participants. Getting to her won't be easy unless you're Gilgamesh.

The best case scenario for Bazett is to team up with Shirou and Rin. However, Rin would probably refuse since it's pretty unwise to collaborate with that many Masters, especially with an Enforcer like Bazett. So the ideal scenario is for Archer to get knocked out of the fight early with Rin losing her rights as a Master. Before this, Bazett would have to realize just how fucked this Grail War is. Once Rin is no longer a participant, Bazett should swallow her pride and ask Shirou to cooperate with her.

And if Sakura becomes the Black Grail, all bets are off. Lancer's probably gonna die so that'd almost definitely force Bazett's hand.

caster can be gae bolg'd into submission

How long did Cu last against gil again, 12 hours? I could see gil getting fed up enough to use Ea after that long

Lancer would be too busy dealing with Assassin. Lancer outright states that he really doesn't want to deal with Assassin. It's not gonna be an easy victory.

Gil would immediately know what Bazett is hiding and would counter accordingly.

>one of the worst singularities, and the worst of the latter half of singularities, due to Nasu's throbbing hatred for Murrika
>debuts one of the best servants of FGO
Nightingale will never ever get done justice and I hate it

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Nasu didn't write the American Singularity. Also, Nightingale's a Santa.

I meant in animation form, but you're right.

Would Gil Frag Bazette's Frag out of spite?

isn't her luck stat really high?

I think he just wouldn't use Ea. No need to either. He has plenty of NPs that can get the job done.

The fuck are you talking about. Lancer and Bazette will just go together and Gae Bolg Assassin. Why are you assuming they'll do things the same way Shirou did?

EXCALIBAST. 5TH MAGIC. AVALON. GG.

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>one of the worst singularities
>not Septem
Umu nigger spotted
Keep seething that umu got her ass blasted in America

Lancer was pretty wary of Assassin. It's not that simple.

>She manages to solo saber with her cheat magic ball
>Also manages to defeat multiple masters while having the weakest of all servants.
>Rin acknowledges she would be no match for her.

Can see that many here haven't read hollow/ataraxia. She could have beat their asses with ease.

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So many assumptions and speculation in this post.

I said one of, not the worst you idiot. I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that Septem is the worst singularity.

>E luck
>NP barely works

The early chapters like Orleans and London are much worse. America is middle of the pack at worst. And you're still being dishonest as fuck
>and the worst of the latter half of singularities,
No shit, it's the only one not written by Nasu aka the point where Nasu/TM realize they actually have to stop half-assing. It's a fucking unfair comparison.
>due to Nasu's throbbing hatred for Murrika
No, it's just you dumb muricans and your retarded victim complex. It's not just TM shit, every time you get neglected by some anime stuff, you fucks start going HURR X HATES AMERICA BECAUSE THEY DON'T PANDER TO US!

>Also manages to defeat multiple masters while having the weakest of all servants.
Plus timeloops, come on, be fair.

I never noticed but isn't Bazzet pretty much someone who will kill masters in coldblood no matter who they are?

Would Gil even have a Frag precursor? It's not an Earthly treasure, it's a god's dagger. Also, apparently, something that you make instead of own.