Why has time travel only been done right once in anime history?

It crashed the series completely, but yes it was.

>It crashed the series completely
What? How?

Time travel is a boring subject and always the same shit

>thing requires me to use my brain nooooo boring boring

retard

We would never know.

It's always done, just most of it is one way and a second at a time.

So it's not done right

>thing requires me to not use my brain because the author doesn't have one

That only applies to some time travel stories, not all of them

Mirai Yume does it right. Although you might argue it's parallel universes rather than time travel.

I don't really remember much about time travel in Haruhi. How did it work and what about it was "done right"?

>parallel universes
I haven't seen it and i can tell just from your post that if it is indeed time travel it wasn't done right.

It's determined (or in that case, predetermined) time travel, that acknowledge the lack of free will and the fact that everything including the future is determined. Basically, when a character goes back in time and does something in the past, it was always there, even before he traveled to the past that thing had already happened in the past. Essentially traveling to the past doesn't allow a time traveler to change what already happened. The show also has a few bootstrap paradoxes that show the fact that even though everything is determined, there are still some things that are there for no apparent reason from a cosmic perspective (events that are their own cause/their own effect), thus establishing reality as a design (with Haruhi being its designer).

Nothing, anime or otherwise, did time travel the way haruhi did. It was fucking mad.

Ah yes, that's my favorite type of time travel. In a sense it's the only real form of time travel, since other types can be thought of as something else like travel between parallel universes. Though I don't really agree about the part about free will, since I think it either makes no sense even without determinism, or else is compatible with determinism. It's true though that this type of time travel does really bring out the tension between the feeling of free will and determinism in an particularly concrete way.

>Though I don't really agree about the part about free will, since I think it either makes no sense even without determinism, or else is compatible with determinism
How does that work? How can everything be determined but free will also exist at the same time? If everything is determined then so are human thoughts.

Please define "done right"
Because it's easy to do right if you keep it a loop. But then by definition said traveler has no effect whatsoever on the plot.
The only other "done right" is a single one way trip.

Outside of that you need to add multiple dimension.
homestuck.com/story/5238
homestuck.com/story/5252

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There's also a lot more to it, they expand on it in later novels. What makes it better is that even though it's all predetermined it doesn't just stop there, there are little bits and rules that make the interactions with time more interesting and less limited. And the way Nagato interacts with the timeline is very different from Mikuru.

The only respectable time travel is that which doesn't give the slightest shit if it makes sense. Thinking the universe is so anthropocentric that things that seem like a paradox according to our limited logic are impossible is as much wank as thinking the sun orbits the earth

Free will exist within determinism, not outside of it.

just read the novels

>But then by definition said traveler has no effect whatsoever on the plot.
How so? He still plays a role how the past he travels to plays out. If he hadn't traveled to the past, then the past would have (always) been different.

Already did but i want my fucking S3

Well do you think our choices being not determined by anything at all makes them any more free? That's just RNG. If indeterminism doesn't make our choices any more free (I think it makes them less free actually), then it's kind of pointless to say "hey everything is pre-determined so we don't have free will".

Whether we have free will under determinism depends on what you mean by "free". I'd say our wills are free if we are not coerced and we are able to think and deliberate different options, imagine what would happen if we chose those options, and pick among them according to our values. Nothing about this is inherently indeterministic, in fact any kind of indeterminism here is just noise interfering with our choices and undermining our control over ourselves.

Quantum physics already challenge causality/determinism

Then it's not free will by the scientific definition of free will

Essentially it's predetermined but the designer/god is a character in the story (Haruhi), so the ultimate goal of the universe that it's predetermined to archieve changes on her whims. She's basically the only character to have free will.

Homestuck's time travel is actually very interesting - it's not realistic but yes, it's consistent, at least up to the retcon mechanic (which is supposed to be more like "plot travel" than time travel anyway). In Homestuck everything is determined, however the characters also have free will. It's up to them weither or not they want to make what is determined to happen happen, but if they don't, they'll end up in a "doomed timeline", basically their universe won't be the alpha (canon) one anymore. That's why it's the responsability of the players (especially time players) to make what is supposed to happen happen so that their timeline will be the alpha one and matter in regards to canon. It's a way to have determinism while at the same time avoiding nihilism.

That can work if the show isn't meant to be taken seriously of if the focus is elsewhere. But there's really nothing wrong about a story trying to have consistent time travel mechanics, as long as it doesn't fail (in which case the author just looks like an idiot, that's the case with most of the stuff that happens in Bunny Girl Senpai for example).

>homosuck
Here's your (You)
Kill yourself.

Yes, but to the extent our wills are free, that freedom comes from the deterministic aspects of the universe. Our choices are ours precisely when they are *determined* by our thoughts and desires. If they happen for no cause at all they are not choices.

>That's just RNG
Actual randomness doesn't exist. We have the illusion of free will but in reality what we do is caused by what we want, and what we want is caused by outside factors. The human brain is a bunch of matter like any bunch of matter, and everything we do has been caused. So cosmically speaking free will doesn't exist.

Which is also why it's a huge load of crap.

Everything is the result of the sum of infinitely small factors, and said factors are actually legit RNG rather than determinism because of quantum bullshit

Everything is the result of its cause. "Actually legit RNG" doesn't exist, just because some people have theorized about stuff doesn't means that's how reality works. Some people just don't want to accept how irrelevant they are.

>just because some people have theorized about stuff doesn't means that's how reality works
It's not just theory, there are practical applications of this.

Nobody has ever been able to give an example of something happening without a cause, so yes, it's a theory.

Determinism proposes far more importance on humanity though, its the argument that from the very dawn of time humans were destined to emerge and there was never any possibility of the universe proceeding without producing us when it did

Purely decorative as nothing the traveler do will change his future, if he know that he is only here for tourism or at best to gather information missing in the future.
If he doesn't know it the ending will still be predictable or feel like an asspull as the author cancel any change at the last second.

>Homestuck's time travel is actually very interesting - it's not realistic but yes, it's consistent
That's why I posted it. As far I remember the retcon is also where it breakdown for the plot.
youtube.com/watch?v=Eje9XjWihQA

Already did, in the future. I'm typing this with my dead body retrieved from the past.
Stay mad.

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People have been able to prove actual randomness existed with multiple experiences about electron states and observation itself influencing objects. There are practical applications of state superposition such as qbits.

Free will basically implies that our actions are what is shaping the future. Literally implying humanity is god.

>People have been able to prove actual randomness existed
Sauce? Because as far as i'm aware every form of PRNG we use in any programming language for example is just that - PRNG, and i haven't heard it was gonna change anytime soon.

My favourite time travel is the lucid dreaming done while asleep especially after concussion or recovering from coma....i know how recurring dreams work
.i also know how artists and musicians get shown things and hear heavenly music...
The thing you dont know is having a pen and pad next to the bed to write down the sequence of notes..the map or the lottery numbers..theirin lies the skill..
Time travel is an extension of that where while asleep you consciously are your own npc and gain control over stuff like waking oneself up ..entering certain rooms .remembering your their to prevent someone being killed so that in itself requires focus..
Having used gates and portals in travel animes to reach other dimensions..its putting all phenomena together##

Of course, your device has no business dealing with quantum objects. PRNG are good enough for regular purposes. But the state of quantum objects (such as location) is determined randomly (that's a gross oversimplification but bear with me) according to a probability density function

Look up quantum random number generator, but it's far from limited to this

>PRNG are good enough for regular purposes
Tell that to speedrunners and my entire box of shiny pokémon in Emerald.
>But the state of quantum objects (such as location) is determined randomly
Again, what are your sources from this? How can you tell it's "random" and doesn't just rely on factors that are outside of our knowledge, but an entity like Laplace's demon would have knowledge of?

*for this

Because you don't watch that many anime.

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>Tell that to speedrunners and my entire box of shiny pokémon in Emerald.
You don't get to know the seed and the algorithm, normally.

>How can you tell it's "random" and doesn't just rely on factors that are outside of our knowledge, but an entity like Laplace's demon would have knowledge of?
The unknown factor is one theory among many, but it'd be pretty hard to go through all of this. Let's just say that electrons locations are modelized by a non-deterministic probabilistic wave function, and all these properties clearly suggest there's more to it than we think there is, at least on this level.

>The unknown factor is one theory among many
More like it's the only explanation that makes sense. If the cause is the same there's absolutely no way the effect isn't. Clearly this whole thing has been build around a massive misunderstanding of a phenomenon, and a lack of reverse engineering. People not being able to figure out why something happens doesn't contradict determinism at all.

>More like it's the only explanation that makes sense.
No user, you haven't solved quantum mechanics in your 2 lines Yas Forums post. "They just didn't figure it out" doesn't discard the real life applications, experiments and properties of quantum objects that show some objects follow a non-deterministic approach. At the very least it challenges the deterministic approach.

Solving it would be indicating what the difference was. I didn't solve shit, i just stated the obvious, that the difference in the effect was caused by a difference in the cause.

>i just stated the obvious, that the difference in the effect was caused by a difference in the cause
You're not stating the obvious, you're taking a position and claiming it's the real one when people smarter than both of us spent their whole lives trying to figure out how this bullshit even works. Being at least aware of the limits of the deterministic model is the reasonable approach here, not claiming with unfounded certainty that it definitely encapsulates all.

>the limits of the deterministic model
That's the problem though, there are none. Our perception is what's limited.

>there are none
See? You keep reiterating it like a dogma. No real point discussing this much more

I don't know if toei animation can be called an anime but onepiece is still airing

>ou keep reiterating it like a dogma
Well yes considering it still holds true