I just watched Bakemonogatari episode 12. Now I now what KINO means

All the details are there and understood, the scene just isn't particularly good when compared to the rest of Monogatari.

>monogatari came into its own right after switching directors but before itamura even became confident he could follow oishi
lol, no Bake was the most rough around the edges sure but it was also the strongest stylistically, until Kizu but that movie isn't in the same conversation really. Itamura's direction comes into its own around Owari and that's probably why people like the latter half of the series so much, aside from the obvious narrative climax approaching
Ironic that you accuse bake of being reliant on narration when the style of the second season was to animate the light novel while the style of bake was to adapt the story. Second season is strong in its own right but doesn't stand up to what came before and what would come after.
Christ I hate you SS fags so fucking much

Everything in Bake was Kino and every other Monogataro series fell apart and never reached that level.
Newfags just don't get it
>muh Kizu
Kizu is a shit show that deep throated you forced shit into making Bake believable. Bake is the only real show that normal fags can't understand

>he doesn't get kizu
spotted the five iq midwit who thinks espousing bake-worship makes him fit in with the smart guys

Yep it's pure kino. Senjougahara letting someone see her at her most vulnerable for probably the first time ever is one of the most touching things I've ever seen, solidified her as best character for me. Also love the way the art style completely changes from its usual vibrant and striking colours to much mellower tone and the character designs are a lot less sharp than they usually are and more round and soft looking, all to shift the tone and make this scene in particular stand out from the rest of the series

Yeah, the direction is unique. Very glad with have Kizu because I think Oishi's direction is often wasted on Bake.

No, I understood this. I understood because Senjougahara's father explained it. That's the problem. It has no subtlety and it comes off rushed, which stunts the emotional impact.

>monogatari came into its own right after switching directors but before itamura even became confident he could follow oishi
Yes. Bake wasn't 'stylistically' stronger than SS except in its visuals, which rarely cohered with the narrative style. Frequently it felt like someone narrating a Wikipedia page with accompanying abstract imagery. The Suruga Monkey arc was, I grant you, very good, and the imagery in Nadeko Snake was also haunting.

Owari 1 was excellent, but the climax of Owari 2 (ShInobu Mail) was a damp squib stylistically. I couldn't quite believe I was watching two characters face each other in an empty stadium repeating cliches ('You were chosen' 'You are not me' etc.). The lack of any of the anime's characteristic abstract imagery make me feel as though they'd given up. Owari 3 was an improvement, but Monogatari was always at its best when it focused on narrow character stories rather than the meta-plot and 'worldbuilding', which often threatened to undermine it. Give me Hana, Neko Shiro or Otori over Oni or Owari 3 any day.

You seem to be under the impression that anyone gives the fuck about a nostalgiafag's baseless whinings.

Bake was 'stylistically' so much stronger than SS it could force fuck it in more holes than it has,, the entire season is basically the culmination of Shaft's pre-rich and famous after making Bake era ideology, and it's no fucking surprise seeing as the guy they put at the helm was basically Shinbou's aesthetic inheritor and the director behind basically every OP they'd done beforehand entirely because of his ability to evoke emotion. It lays the groundwork for the methodology of adaptation Oishi would return to with kizu, whereas the Second Season had nowhere near the flair for adaptation and instead decided it would be best to just read the novels over moving pictures. The fact that you think Bake is full of abstraction just tells me your ability to process visual information is on the level of a blind bat that died. The whole thing is brimming with contextualization and rich emotional imagery to not only supplement but evolve the narrative because anime is first and foremost about motion; this the team just couldn't do in season season without Oishi's natural ability to condense anything into its most basic stylistic elements and powerhouses like abegen and imamura to do anything with it

nice job typing like a third grader, really goes to show how bakebabies really can't think for themselves, and don't worry, nobody thinks your obsession with saying reddit in every thread means you think about them as much as you clearly do

As a crab hater it is undeniably cute. She's still shit though.

Loads of buzzwords and insults here without much in the way of specific content or examples, dude. I don't care how many names you drop or whom you think is a powerhouse.

>The fact that you think Bake is full of abstraction just tells me your ability to process visual information is on the level of a blind bat that died. The whole thing is brimming with contextualization and rich emotional imagery to not only supplement but evolve the narrative
Why do you think abstract imagery is mutually exclusive with emotional imagery? You're hallucinating things I didn't say. I like abstract imagery; one of my favourite anime of all time—possibly my favourite—is Serial Experiments Lain. What I don't like is hearing character's backstories narrated directly into my ear while supplementary imagery is displayed. It's a poor use of the medium and SS is not exempt; the episode of Oni where Shinobu narrates her backstory has the same issue. Narration only works very well if it's indirect and has some personality; it's often best if the connection between the narration and image isn't immediately apparent, or highlights some ironic contradiction to create an effect like humour or intrigue. Forcing the audience to reconcile the two builds dramatic tension. OTOH the imagery in e.g. Hitagi Crab is informative and complementary but felt like a video essay. One of the reasons Kizu is so much more effective is that it cut its losses and just shut up.

>anime is first and foremost about motion
Love this sakugabooru cliche that doesn't even slightly apply to the context of the discussion.

I can't make you accept the truth, I can only beat you over the head with it in hopes that some will leak into your thick fucking skull. I don't know why you insist on being so pretentious and then list your examples as entirely subjective evaluations of the show. Like yeah, you remember an episode of SS but do you really think just saying the issues are the same work as evidence? Or do you just want to do the bare minimum more than me because you want to look good in your third person mental evaluation of this garbage. The fact of the matter is you're going to come out of this twice as sure of yourself even though you're just fucking wrong, and you're convinced my lack of evidence is proof I don't know what I'm talking about. The truth is I don't want to fucking bother generating any semblance of a sound argument when I've already got one hand on my dick and the only reason I'm soft is that all my blood rushed to my head after reading your self involved and entirely subjective bullshit, I don't want to invest any more time into this than I fucking already have and the only reason I wrote anything out at all is because I'm autistic. I don't drop names and breeze through explanations because I'm hiding behind their credibility, it's just because if you don't know literally the introductory material how the fuck can you expect me to take you seriously? Anyone who knew shit about dick would be able to speak with a level of understanding about it, the only people who fling shit when you use a name as a substitute for their work are the people who feel belittled because they don't know enough. And good job tossing out sakugabooru just to complete the Image of a luddite who has no clue what he's talking about. Animation is about motion and this comes down to fucking Latin roots. Anime for breath or mind, giving life to a still frame or a story, being animate, not whatever the fuck your headcannon thinks. In closing you're a pretentious nigger, lick my dick

>anime is first and foremost about motion
This is the dumbest fucking statement. Anime is named after its most obvious trait, but that is not a statement of importance. Pretending that voice acting, music, sound effects, characters, story, directing, shot composition, art style, and any other number of considerations that go into anime aren't just as important- if not more so depending on the series- is ridiculous. I can only imagine it's bait or said by someone with literal brain damage.

OP here, I expected some deniers but I thought it would be a fun and cute thread, never could I have imagined so much pretentious wall of text.
I'm gonna watch episode 13 now, goodbye.

Don't mind these fags OP just enjoy the show, what they're arguing about doesn't even matter it's all good and worth watching

does anyone else get depressed when you realize you're way too old to experience high school romance?

Why would that ever be the case? You should be fine as long as you don't get caught.

Yes, I know the etymology of animation. That doesn't change the fact that it's a total cliche to cite it and you could've spared yourself the trouble. It's just vacuous.

>Like yeah, you remember an episode of SS but do you really think just saying the issues are the same work as evidence?
I have 2,000 characters to work with. No, Hitagi Crab and Onimonogatari are not stylistically identical. Obviously. I am drawing a narrow comparison, which is that they both have a stylistic reliance on narration with imagery that predominantly develops and complements said narration without interfacing with it more dynamically. I find that this is more frequent in Bake than it is in SS, despite the fact that Bake has more inventive visual direction. Some of those occasions, like Black Hanekawa's long-winded worldbuilding dialogue with Araragi, are particularly notable because they don't have the visual style to fall back on.

>subjective
>subjective
>subjective
Didn't realise I was talking to the Absolute.

>The truth is I don't want to fucking bother generating any semblance of a sound argument when I've already got one hand on my dick and the only reason I'm soft is that all my blood rushed to my head after reading your self involved and entirely subjective bullshit
So you're apparently convinced of this thesis that you're unwilling to explain on the basis that it would be too time consuming yet apparently you have the time to reiterate these cliches and devise insults. Okay.

Sounds like you don't into V.As, since it was spot on in this episode along with the sound layers. Pause was done to effect too.

dumb faggot. bake and kizu are the only good parts

But literally none of that is animation. Are you an idiot? I said animation not anime. Fuck I told myself I wasn't going to respond no matter what you said but this was literally twice as stupid as I expected

Nah I just don't want to bother coming up with a defense when it makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not. I realized I'm not trying to convince you I'm right I just want to point out to the world that you're wrong. I've done my job, out

My quote is copy and pasted from your post. Everything I listed is present in anime. You're doing a good job of convincing me that you're in the "literal brain damage" category.

You're talking to someone else.

>I just want to point out to the world that you're wrong
Yeah, I find when I want to do that, the best way to do that is to furiously explode at my opponents with bunch of tautologies like 'Anime is first and foremost about motion' and a Who's Who index instead of, y'know, making a focused point and backing it up with some detail.

Yeah just realized that, doesn't really matter though, you're trying to suggest story and characters are the most important when in anything other than originals they aren't even made by the staff, character design is important but only to the extent that it accentuates the motion. Yeah shot composition is more important than motion, and other lies you can tell yourself
None of this changes the fact that the critical difference between anime and everything that it adapts is that it puts the work to pictures. Sound exists mainly to accentuate the motion, and also partly to drive emotion. Voice acting is also hugely dependant on work that already exists. Literally none of these are nearly as characteristic to anime as animation. Yeah, it is the most fucking important part. To think otherwise is contrarian. It's fucking retarded. Yeah maybe too many people think that, sure there's a lot of things that go into anime, you're a fucking idiot if you think any of them are more important because it's "trite" or "overstated" Maybe everyone is right and you're the one who's wrong

You ignore the rest of my post because you can call a tautology a tautology instead and think that drives your point home. You ever consider that maybe it just means you're not fucking getting it? And yeah, I'll do whatever the fuck I want because it's funny and I'm on Yas Forums. I don't need a smart argument to show the world you're wrong, I just need to insult you in a way that sticks in people's heads, and then when they read your post they internally go "lol look at this btfo's nerd lmao cope" because to me that's much more fun than working on building an argument. That shit is boring!

It's not just trite, it's a completely braindead statement that obviously has no thought put into it. Attempting to justify it after the fact while in a motherfucking Monogatari thread where even Shaft openly calls Bake a Powerpoint and the characters are so obviously the number one focus and pretending that raw animation is the only fucking thing that matters when judging a season is almost as retarded as making that statement in the first place.

even if I could get a jk to love me it wouldn't be the same because I'm a depressed 31 year old and not a hopeful teenager anymore.

wah you're retarded! I'm going to take your point to the extreme because that makes it sound retarded!
cause I totally said raw animation is the only fucking thing that matters and not
>Yeah, its the most fucking important part
(my quote is copy pasted from my post)
Yeah I'm sure Shaft as an entity disagrees, that's probably why they put their best animators and visual directors on it. Because they were bored and had nothing better to do so they dropped people that only ever worked on the flashiest most visual animation at their studio to make a powerpoint in their free time. Fucking idiot. BUT SHAFT CALLED IT A POWERPOINT!!!

My 'point' is that you've blown a lot of hot air—which is hardly the way to stick in people's heads, incidentally, if you've ever noticed that advertising slogans tend not to be paragraphs long.

Equally, the fact that you've admitted you're not interested in seriously making a point makes it questionable whether your argument is worth responding to at all. You made some assertions about Bake and SS and retreated to this defensive posture immediately when challenged. If you know that you're just relying a thought-terminating tautology, why say it? A little brevity might help you next time you want to 'btfo' some nerd.

I tried watching this several times and just couldn't enjoy it at all. I found the dialogue and characters to be extremely uninteresting. However, the erotic scenes are absolutely god-tier.
I'm curious how the monogatari fanbase is split up. What % of fans like this for the writing and what % like it for the fanservice?

I find most of the erotic scenes completely meh since most of the characters are just kids, and am in it for the pretentious weirdos discussing the world plus the occasional god tier fight scene chock full of ultraviolence slapstick

lol then don't respond but you have to because you want to come out on top, challenge: leave the thread

I like it for the fanservice writing. it makes me feel like I'm actually a clever person successfully talking to girls.

They put effort into it, but again, this is Shaft, the studio that filters most brainlets like you because they openly give the least fucks about animation of any studio in the business. Bake has maybe a minute of good animation in the entire season. The rest is mouth flapping stills, text flashes, stock footage, and abstract imagery because all the rest of their money and effort went into the things I listed. And this was the correct choice. And Shaft makes fun of themselves because they know that they barely gave a fuck about the animation compared to everything else. Someone coming in and harping on only the animation for a Shaft series is fucking stupid, no matter how you slice it.

I like Monogatari predominantly for the way it treats character, especially once it brings in more perspectivism in SS. Kizu is also excellent and one of my favourite anime. I think its biggest fault is that it has very high peaks and very low troughs.

The fanservice is nice but that's all it is.

are you fucking inept? the studio that regularly calls Yoh Yoshinari in to animate, the studio that moved mountains to bust out some of the best animators in the business for kizu makes fun of themselves for having bad animation. Stop pretending you know things you don't

>whoa, he made points i can't refute
>better namedrop people and act like a movie is a tv series

I'm just so blown aback that you even think that's a claim, you didn't even make any points you just gave a vague statement that shaft doesn't animate, which is just an absolute lie, not only is their animation some of the flashiest in the industry at times, it's also some of the most inventive, but I guess all the arthousy-ness of sangatsu szs ppd and the million ops they blew economic loads onto to get perfect isn't real animation huh

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kizu is kino as fuk tho

I did say that they animate. One minute per season. It's nice, but thinking that that is more important than literally every other part of the anime is fucking retarded.

they animate one minute of flashy obviously well done animation and two hundred minutes of less flashy but still incredibly talented animation otherwise. it's more important because it is. Shaft has always been an animation studio just like every other studio in the universe, studios which have consistent in-house animators which become in-house directors, and aside from producers and management that's literally all a studio bothers to hold on to. Hit me up when you find a studio that's known for its in house voice actors and composers and writers before their animators

But Shaft is known for their voice acting and directing over their animators. You can namedrop for days but that doesn't make the animators any more known. However, everyone watching a Shaft series pays attention to the directing and there's a good chance they know of Shaft's stable of favored voice actors.
Yes, Shaft is an animation studio. Yes they have animators. Tautologies don't make an argument better. Shaft does, however, famously deprioritize animation compared to every other studio ever. The legions of faggots butthurt over this is too big to ignore. However, both you and I know they make great anime. And it's not just despite that, but because of it.

every one of shaft's big directors was an animator, and shaft has va regulars but not in house. their voice acting has always played second fiddle to their animators. You keep saying Shaft downplays their animation because they only make one minute of good animation and every argument I make against that point is "name dropping" even though in my previous post I didn't mention a single name. You literally have no clue what good animation is if you think shaft deprioritizes it when they have been constantly praised across the industry for their inventive and expressive use of it. Maybe the "faggots butthurt over it" are just angry at you for being so fucking stupid and full of yourself about it. The fact of the matter is you and I both know they make great anime, but I know how they make great anime and you only think you do.

At this point you're resorting to pretending that arguments that have been happening regularly on Yas Forums for over a decade don't exist. Please try something believable.

didn't say they didn't exist, just that maybe you're so fucking schizophrenic you have no fucking grip on reality

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Okay. Then, if Shaft is so amazing at animation and has so much of it and relies on it so heavily, then why is everyone's reaction to watching a Shaft show for the first time "this direction is crazy and why is there so little animation?"

yeah, that's everyone's reaction, sure it is schizo

Yes. It is. Trying to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. Go ahead and see what people in the Trigger threads think about Shaft's animation.

What the fuck are you on about? Trigger threads are full of shitflinging by the one triggerhate schizo, and why the fuck would I care, everyone on this website has shittaste it's just not nearly as bad as anywhere else

Ah, so when it comes to back up your words, you bitch out. But you were already resulting to name calling earlier so it's obvious you've basically already given up.