Is an asspull that is retrospectively explained away still an asspull?

>An asspull that directly contradicts the prior story due to deceptive writing is irredeemable no matter how hard they try to explain it though.
Would you elaborate on that regarding this particular example or you mean just in general?

I'm blanking on other examples I know exist but for example, Ep23 of KLK. They show Ryuuko getting sliced in half completely but then describe events that completely contradict the visuals that played out earlier. It's possible to have a reveal of someone surviving playing out if you are very vague and show the bare minimum so there's plausibility, but a lot of creators avoid this because it makes it "too obvious" there will be a twist on it and thus simply create fiction that they'll contradict later with what "really" happened.

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>is asspull an overused buzzword that shonenshitters use to try and put themselves above other shonenshitters?
Yes.

>if it had no buildup it's poor writing
Perfect example of small brain thinking he's big brain

The best moments in writing are when something pre-established is utilized in a creative manner. All of the cards were already on the table, they simply got used in an unexpected way. This makes for the finest twists and moments, where when you look back at the story up to that point, the point it progressed to is only logical in retrospect. When the only way you can make a surprising tale is to keep every card hidden completely, you're not doing a very good job.

Please enlighten us, what are some examples asspulls with no buildup that were good writing?

Whats the difference between an asspull and a twist?
Something you like and something you don't?

An asspull won't stop being an asspull just because an explanation to justify said asspull comes later on. It's easy to come up with any number of explanations for an asspull, just pull one out of your ass.

That is foreshadowing.

A good twist is generally foreshadowed in a way where the viewer/reader could've seen it coming. They just didn't.

Buildup, foreshadowing, planning. What everyone in this thread is already saying.

OH MY RUBBER NEN

An ass pull is a very convenient thing that seemingly comes out of nowhere

>random flashback that he just never seen before
>suddenly i remember something random, time to use it for the first time!
That's one of the biggest asspulls in shonen, and that's saying something

Actually it was foreshadowed, just not that well. Basically enough to say "there's something about Tanjirou's lineage that's important (earrings) and something about his sword fighting style (black sword instead of blue)" it just should have had some mention of his father. Even a very brief flash of his father dancing with no other context would have worked, there were many places you could have worked five seconds of that in early on.

Why couldn't the author just show Tanjiro doing the dance ritual a couple of times during his training and then have the trainer comment about how it resembles the breathing techniques?

An Asspull is just a fancy way of saying Deus Ex Machina. The author comes in and makes something happen because it needs to, not because it should.

A twist was planned in advance and set-up. Note that this doesn't meant the audience needs to be able to work it out, there just needs to be evidence for it.
In Attack on Titan, with the notable image of Ymir and the Devil, Ymir's "apple" is assumed to be a gift from the devil, the twist is that Ymir is actually giving the apple to the devil. There's nothing in the story to suggest this, but since the image can easily be interpreted both ways, it's a well executed twist and instantly recontextualises everything about the history of the Titans in a simple bait and switch.

Asspulls are typically positive in that they help a character out of a hard situation.
Twists are neutral in comparison. They can either help or hinder.

This

JJK is the only shounen without asspulls. Boruto, KnY, BC and BnHA are all garbage

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I second this, but KnY is actually decent.

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puppet guy was asspull city

How? Mutas power is puppet manipulation

This

Name one

Why would he just randomly start doing the dance ritual

>examples asspulls with no buildup that were good writing?

When pic related happened there was no inclination that the Valar could just send him back because Maiar are divine spiritual beings. Then when he came back as the White and all that shit was explained it made perfect sense

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Neither of you have explained why it's an asspull

Tolkien is one of the king of asspull, dude. He's a great world builder but a poor storyteller.

>An Asspull is just a fancy way of saying Deus Ex Machina.

>Deus Ex Machina
>perfectly acceptable for hundreds of years
>suddenly bad

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If we consider an asspull as a plot device specifically created to solve an otherwise unsolvable problem that has absolutely no foreshadowing at all, this is definetely an asspull. It's a mild one though.
In retrospective it is clear that the whole situation (facing off with a Lower Moon) was set up for Tanjirou to obtain such power up. Had it been otherwise there would be absolutely no need to make Rui that much stronger than Tanjirou since Tanjirou already defeated a former lower moon. Even more so since all Lower Moon except LM1 were slaughtered by Muzan, fact that on a writing perspective left Wani with a lot of leeway to set Rui's placement on a power scale.
The battle could've literally ended with Tanjirou using the 10th form and Nezuko using her blood art (another albeit even more mild asspull) to take Rui down and it would have worked the same. The only difference would have been the introduction of the dance of the fire god, a major plot point that has been recently tied up in the final battle.

>no foreshadowing at all
Anyone got good examples of asspulls that weren't foreshadowed? Would that transformation gon did be an example of an asspull?

having a story end with "DUUUUUUH EVERYONE DIES BECAUSE HUBRIS IS BAD" is retarded and gay. Time travel back to ancient Greece and get fucked in the ass if you like it so much

>Anyone got good examples of asspulls that weren't foreshadowed?
7 quirks, same type of stand

7 quirks was foreshadowed when All Might points out that people can misunderstand how their quirks work and assume things about it that aren't true

The method One For All was passed down by was stated earlier in the series. Hell when that was described my initial reaction was "Huh? Did NO ONE in the entire lineage of receivers have a Quirk that'd get passed down along with it?"

>Hotaru called Tanjiro "A Child of Brightness"
>said boys with red hair and eyes born into a family that works with fire are special
>expected Tanjiro to get a red sword and was disappointed/surprised when he didn't
>Tanjiro's father is a complete mystery
>Muzan has a ptsd flashback to a man that looks EXACTLY like an older Tanjiro down to the same eyes, hair, and earrings
>also has the red sword Hotaru expected Tanjiro to have
>even Tanjiro's words were exactly what the man said to him all those years ago
You'd have to be either the densest retard on the planet or the laziest speed reader possible to not see this coming.

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An asspull has a convenience that helps the author like saving the character. It's part of the reason I don't consider OP's example an asspull. If Tanjiro had defeated Rui with it and the fight was over it would totally be an asspull. But he still lost and was saved by Giyuu. The author could very well have Giyuu just come earlier. But she wanted to introduced the dance of the fire god

KnY is so boring i dont understand how anyone can like something with such a bland plot. good animation doesnt change the fact the source material is boring

How many manga did you read?

>asspulls that weren't foreshadowed
All of them, by definition.

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why tf are you watching fairy tail to begin with

OH MY DANCING FATHER

Now this is a butthurt response

Well, yeah.

Most events in old mythologies are just asspulls, they existed more as a way of letting storytellers put on a performance and give people characters to think about. Word of mouth means you often get embellishments or new events in old stories, so how are they introduced? The storyteller just throws them in, of course.

In the 21st century there's an entire history of novels, fiction writing and genres. The standards are different so people expect better.

This is a bit disingenuous.

Clearly Tanjiro was set up to be something, but it's clear that this was just insurance to justify development further down the line. You can't justify any sudden turn-around with "he's special", because it wasn't explained how and what that actually means.
It's a deliberate device to make weekly writing seem more planned than it is, the hallmark of that being lots of plot threads that go nowhere once the story ends. Bad writers will spam set-up plots in their story and never resolve them, just so they can have Get Out Of Jail cards for asspulls (see Lost and JJ Abrams in general)

yet it's revealed the guy is not related to tanjiro at all and he just so happened to have a friend that created a dance that was passed down through several generations mimicking his sun breathing to the extent that it was identical to it
oh and sword colors are thrown out of the fucking window given it's revealed red sword = force or pressure being applied to the blade/hilt for some fucking reason

People back then had fewer stories, so their standards were lower.
Most people didn't spend most of their time consuming stories like some people do nowadays.

>oral tradition
>perfectly acceptable for thousands of years
>suddenly bad
no fucking shit, civilization progresses and generally becomes better at doing things

DoTF was clearly a plot point that use to set up the BoTS and Yoriichi.
It's the fucking theme. Legacy and became immortal through your legacy. Yoriichi did good things out of his compassion and the results of those acts help defeat the final boss.