Name one instance where the hardworking beats the talented fair and square. You can't

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Hard mode: 1v1 skirmishes only.

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Some people are talented in that they start out higher than average.
Some people are talented in that they grow at a much faster than average rate.
Some people are talented in that their peak potential is higher than average.
True prodigies are typically all of the above.

The problem is people typically only think of the first form of talent when you say talent. But the other forms are just as important, it's just way harder to quantify those so people don't notice them.

>Yukimitsu from Eyeshield 21
You now remember Yukimitsu 6D chess during the match against White Knights that made Devil Bats escape loss

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The entire premise of this manga.

Maybe I'm going senile but didn't she lose at the end

You've forgotten which was the one with talent and which was wasn't

Natsuo (the talented one) gets choked out by Eyebrows (the one who's done a lot of training) in the final fight

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I fucking loved the manga because of him. Plenty of hype shit but the BEARD was my #1. Get fucked >muh evolving fighter.

This, I don't know what's with the autists making these threads, but people who are good at things don't pop out of the womb already fully capable, they just take less time to become proficient at things that they work at and/or have more potential than others.

Okay

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Asemu Asuno kills newtypes with only piloting skill.

Lee vs Sasuke

>people who are good at things don't pop out of the womb already fully capable
They do in anime. Sometimes literally.

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true but it doesn't change anything if the reason is you draw satisfaction from seeing lucky people that were born talented get crushed by the merit of hard work. especially if they are smug about being talented

Psycho Staff is explicitly about this.

Dragonball.

Ufu

How about that one instance where the hardworking got shown the harsh reality

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At this time Peco was all talent and no work.
Sakuma beat him through sheer hard work.

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Kenichi

ending was pure unadulterated shit and apachai had to die, that asspull was unforgivable.

There is no such thing as talent. Reddit buzzword

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Not anime, but in real life stat relevance goes like this:
luck >>>> int > everything else

I don't know about politics or sports, but the most successful in the fields of science and technology are nearly always born into wealth. Isaac Newton was a NEET who lived off rent from his parents land, Einsteins parents were at least wealthy enough to afford a private tutor, Bill Gates dad was a lawyer who sent him to a private school that had a computer he could use whenever he wanted at a time when most people hadn't even seen a computer before.

This is why people are always angry about Jews. The fact that Jews are always scientists and politicians has much less to do with something genetic and much, much more to do with the fact that their culture actually values money. Money means free time, free time means you can skill grind more.

So in reality the winner isn't MC who trains tirelessely. It's not the dickhead rival whose a little better than everyone else in the class.

It's the fucking joke character richy rich kid usually gets btfo'd in around episode 4 or 5 of literally every anime.

Based

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>tfw you'll never be as driven as Kenichi to train every single day to the best of your abilities even though you're hopeless
Would be so good at anything right now.

Pretty much everyone in the Devil Bats were hardworkers, not one of them was born talented or skilled. Sena only got as fast as he was by years of running and then fought and clawed his way to the top as Eyeshield 21.

So far he's not shown to have any natural talent at anything other than yelling, although I suppose you could consider being able to use his anti-magic weapon as a talent in itself.

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Does One Punch Man count? Saitama worked for his strength. Harder than I would.

What would you call it if your talent was having no talent?

Because he is just so strong because he "broke his limiter"... by doing some exercises and not using his AC. Meanwhile Garou ALMOST breaks his limiter as a byproduct of trying to use hand to hand combat against city destroyers.

>could've been actually decent at drawing now if I had been serious from the start

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>although I suppose you could consider being able to use his anti-magic weapon as a talent in itself.
No shit.

Maybe ray from neverland? He outplayed isabella pretty fucking hard at the end and would have won even if he died.
I can't think of a single 1v1 asta won against a truly talented person. He beats a bunch of fodder and that diamond dude in his black form. For langris he needed his teammates to even buy his ass time.

>although I suppose you could consider being able to use his anti-magic weapon as a talent in itself.
Shonen you stupid haha

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Everything except luck. Fate can betray even the best there is.

This makes true but approach is also important. Person A might be inferior to Person B at a specific way if doing a task because of limitations but it can still be worked around or find a way to achieve success that makes use of it's actual good assets. It's dumb trying to push yourself further on a practice you already peaked at but there's a number of ways of doing things.

It's lame if the talented winner is smug. I think it hits even harder if the talented person turns out to be a cool good sport person. That robs the hardworker of even the excuse of assuming the talented person is a jerk.

Rock Lee vs Sasuke round 1.

Goku is talented compared to humans and other shitty races, but most of his major enemies and quite a few of his allies, including his own son.

The only exception I can think of at the top of my head would be Jiren, who was born weak, I guess Jiren is a good example considering how strong he is compared to talented shitters like Freeza/Gohan/#17/etc.

There's a reason the argument is always talent v hardwork and not talent + work v hard work

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Funny you posted Kaiba. He was an orphan who clawed his way into a rich family and then into becoming a CEO of an international company with a combination of both guts and smarts.

Yugi Oh.

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>but most of his major enemies and quite a few of his allies, including his own son.
did you forget a word or two here user?

Isn't that kind of the opposite? Seto Kaiba is the hardworker here who constantly lose to the kid possessed by the spirit of an ancient pharao who is unbeatable in games.

Both then? The series has a lot of those.

It still strong that Joey lost on a technicality but it was very sweet watching Marik wetting himself like that.

Damn shit was marvelous. youtube.com/watch?v=H-ppqcTxKV8

Yeah, I meant that Goku is less talented than most of his enemies and a few of his allies.

It is a fucking card game though lol