There is no spoon

What of the LBMA mess?
Gold is cornered. Plain and simple. No complicated theories, no options problems. The commodity value of gold was forced so low in paper currency terms that all of the new mined gold, going out some 10 years is spoken for. Between the third world buying physical gold and the jewelry industry (same people buying) there is none left for the oil states! They do value oil in terms of gold, but not IN the paper currency price of gold!
How much is gold worth in terms of oil value? Just stop supplying gold to them in ultra-cheap US$ terms and you will find out by watching the currency price of oil! In any event, LBMA has traded so much paper/oil/gold that any rise in the currency price of gold will implode them. The CBs must become the full primary suppliers of gold or the system as we know it is done.
One last note: No form of paper wealth will survive the financial crush once the CBs stop selling!
NOTHING!

How DO they do it?
It's more complicated than this but here is a close explanation. In the beginning the CBs didn’t sell their own gold. They (thru third party) found someone else who had bullion. That "party" sold to a broker who sold forward for a mine or speculator or government. In the end the 3rd party had the backing from the broker that he had backing from the CB to supply physical if needed to put out a fire. The CB held a very private note from the broker as insurance and was paid a small fee.
This process mobilized free standing bullion outside the government stockpiles. The world currency gold price was kept down as large existing physical stockpiles were replaced by notes of future delivery from the merchant banks (and anyone else who wanted to play)
This whole game was not lost on some very large buyers WHO WANTED GOLD BUT DIDN'T WANT Its MOVEMENT TO BE SEEN! Why not move a little closer to the action by offering cash directly to the broker/bank (to be lent out) in return for a future gold note that was indirectly backed by the CBs. That "paper gold" was just like gold in the bank. The CBs liked it because no one had to move gold and it took BIG buying power off the market that would have gunned the price!
It also worked well as a vehicle to cycle oil wealth for gold as a complete paper deal.

Are you with me?
Well a funny thing happened right after the Gulf war ended. What looked like big money before turned out to be little money as some HK people, I'll call them "Big Trader" for short, moved in and started buying all the notes and physical the market offered. The rub was that they only bought low, and lower and cheaper. They never ran the price and they never ran out of money. Seeing this, some people (middle east) started to exchange their existing paper gold for the real stuff. From that time, early 1997 LBMA was running full speed just to stay in one spot! (see LBMA clearing volume from second post)
In other words, paper volume had to increase to the physical volume on a worldwide scale, and that was going to be one hell of a jump. It could not be hidden from the news any longer.
This was not far from the time that "Big Trader" said that "if gold drops below $370 the world would see trading volume like never before seen". The rest is history. Now the CBs will have to sell 1/3 to 1/2 of their gold just to cover what’s out there.
To use the Queens English "it ain't gona happen dude"!
Everything is now upside down and reversed. The more the CBs sell outright the more the price will rise.
It's not a bearish sign anymore. They will now sell to keep the price rising slowly.
What of those T-bonds and the US$?
More later.

I ask you now: " Is it hard to believe or hard to understand"? When it comes to money it's usually both.
Know this: "gold transcends human valuations thru time and life". Take your time on this one! Gold is now caught in a crossfire of world thought. The traders are viewing it as a commodity and trying to make money on its moves using various paper trading vehicles. Their opinion of the market is flawed because the "real value buyers" would never deal with these people or let anyone in that circle know they are buying gold as "money"! The major buying and selling is between CBs, nations, merchant banks, "the super-rich" and the hordes of small buyers in forgotten places.
That is one of the small many reasons wall street hates gold, they are not part of the real action.

Comex is a side show!

First a reprint;
"You see the trading medium changed. Oil went from $30++ to $19 + X amount of gold!
Today it costs $19 + XXX amount of gold! " If you owned a commodity in the ground that had to be sold for paper currency in order to realize value what would do? Yes, the oil in the ground may last another 50+ years but will the bonds and currencies of other governments last that long? One thing you don't do is buy gold outright, it would cause it to stop trading as a commodity and start trading as money!
You learned that in the late 70s. Nor do you acquire "real gold money" in any fashion that would allow a comparison of price trends ( graphs ) ! There must be a way to convert the true wealth of oil into the outright wealth of gold. We know that oil is a consumed wealth of a momentary value that is lost in the heat of fire.
The stars blink and it is oil wealth no more!
It has become "the debt of nations " now owed to you. Gold on the other hand is not a commodity as many assume, as it is truly "the wealth of nations " meant to last thru the ages! A wise oil nation can strike a deal with the paper printers and in doing so come out on top. Go back a few years to the early 90s. Oil is very high; you offer to lower the US$ price in return for X amount of gold purchasing power. You don't care what the current commodity price of gold is, your future generations will keep it as real wealth to replace the oil that is lost. Before the future arrives, gold will be, once again valued as money and can be truly counted on to appropriately represent all oil wealth!

The Deal:
We (an oil state) now value gold in trade far higher than currencies. We are willing to use gold as a partial payment for the future use of "all oil" and value it at $1,000 US. (only a small amount of oil is in this deal) And take a very small amount of gold out of circulation each month using its present commodity price.
If the world price can be maintained in the $300s it would be a small price for the west to pay for cheap oil and monetary stability. The battle is now between CBs trying to keep gold in the $300s and the "others" buying it up. In effect the governments are selling gold in any form to "KEEP IT" being used as 'REAL MONEY" in oil deals! Some people know this, that is why they aren't trading it, they are buying it.
Not all oil producers can take advantage of this deal as it is done "where noone can see". And, they know not what has happened for gold does not change in price! But I tell you, gold has been moved and its price has changed in terms of oil! For the monthly amount to be taken off the market has changed from $10 in gold (valued at $1,000) /per barrel to the current $30 in gold /per barrel still valued at $1,000! Much of this gold was in the form of deals in London to launder its movement. Because of some Asians, these deals are no longer being rolled over as paper!
What is happening now is far, far larger than the interest of a few traders or mining companies. They will be stepped on! more on US$ and T-bills.

There is only one oil state that counts! Only one! They have made it very clear how important gold is to them. If they had started buying outright, gold would have gone to $5,000+ in days. And only a very few million ozs. would have been purchased! The message has been for some years, "we will accumulate thru the back door, using paper deals if you keep the price at or below the cost of production". Do this and oil will remain THE driving force of the world economy!
FAIL THIS AND WE WILL PRICE GOLD IN DOLLARS AT THE TRUE VALUE OF OIL TO THE WORLD!
You see, gold is not a commodity. The CBs have used every weapon to keep its price low . Understand me, Gold is now, today, a devalued currency being used in world trade! Do you think the CBs are selling gold to keep the dollar strong?
They don't have to sell to accomplish that feat! CB gold (one billion oz?) valued at its current commodity price is only worth 300 billion, it's nothing in that price range! They know what it's US$ price is worth in terms of oil! They are not stupid as they show.
You should not think they are dumb! Invest in gold mines, will you? Notice how quick the
Australian CB hinted at taking "gold in the ground" if needed. This was said after their sale! The nature of the coming crisis will make the taking of investor property a piece of cake.

Attached: RBA_gold_sale_1997.png (707x913, 69.82K)

You see, because gold is a commodity, you will be compensated at the commodity price of return + a fair profit, of course. How much further can they take this? The world private stockpiles that could be sold have been. The CBs are heavy into their own stuff now and are over their heads if they had to make good on all the private deals (read my other posts) . The economic game is ending now and has been from the start of 1997! Watch closely as the world currencies and markets fall one by one. Watch in absolute wonder as the demand for oil plunges and its price goes thru the roof. Yes, oil stocks will crash with the markets. And gold? You will never know its price. It will stop all trading as it slices thru $10,000+.
Who am I? As I will not be around for long so I am no one.
But, follow with me as all of this takes place in your time!

If you are searching for facts you will find them, but the items you find will not be true! Did you think that the high-powered world of the LBMA would operate in a fishbowl for all to see?
We cannot take what is on the outside as evidence for what is on the inside. To find the answer work with inside assumptions and extrapolate them to the outside!
Think now:
Would the world CBs really have kept gold this long if they only valued it at its ongoing commodity price? Cannot only the offer of gold have some value in a deal? Can paper gold that has a commodity face value of, say $300 be traded for its true value of many thousands? Indeed, if your worldly investments (US stock market?) are valued in the long run by a full supply of oil, would not future gold in a Swiss acct. make a good trade?
Do the oil states think our military is there to protect them or protect oil?
Fact: If the world bids up the price of gold, all deals will be off!
It would be every nation for themselves. Oil would explode in price!

Where are my THOUGHTS leading?

The Central Banks have known for quite some time the true value of gold in today's paper world. In a very real sense, they are on our side. Let's take their side if you will. They are not dumb or stupid, in fact many of them are the best of the best! You see, the world grew up and ran away from them, totally out of control. It has left in its wake a money system of colossal debt and political mismanagement. They know it is over.
We are all at a giant poker table and the CBs act as the dealer. One day soon the game will end and the players will try to cash in the chips. In that day the dealer will act in our own best interest. They will not pay out gold for the chips. The money system will start over, from scratch.

Also:
It is easy to know that gold could not have been traded for all oil sold. This was never the intent. They only wanted to pull a small amount out of circulation on a regular basis. Using a small amount of oil as a partial trading vehicle gold could be purchased in an all paper deal to hide its price. As I said before, if they walked up to the plate and started buying outright it would run the price. It is working. They only need 200 million ozs. When the system breaks that gold would be worth all the oil in Arabia and then some.
The Asians are the problem, by buying up bullion worldwide and thru South Africa they created a default situation on all the paper for the oil / gold trade! Now the CBs are selling in the open to calm nerves but it's known that they will never sell enough. It was never their intent to provide the gold, only the backing until new mining technology could increase production. Over time the forward sales, such as ABX's should have worked. But LBMA went nuts with the game and the whole mess has now accelerated.

Do you think that value has been lost by holding physical gold all these years?
If the answer is yes, you are wrong! I tell you now, it's all in your perception of what is value and what is real. Gold has been increasing in value since the early 90s and doing it at a rate much higher than any other investment. Cannot see this? Hear me now, what the wealthy and powerful know: "real value does not have to always be stated or converted throughout time. It need only be priced once during the experience of life, that will be much more than enough!"
Worldwide the oil business is still conducted in dollars. But an interesting side show is now taking place that will change the way we think about gold and oil! If you wanted to devalue the US$ against other currencies what would be the best way to do it without LOWERING interest rates in the USA?
Perhaps you want to cool off an over active stock market without raising rates? Could a smart CB Chairman kill two birds with one stone?

The US$ could be effectively lowered against most of the leading currencies by slowly taking it off the oil standard! This could be done by introducing a new concept to the world: "create a mechanism whereby a form of CB paper gold could be traded for oil as a side premium. So, instead of them taking physical gold off the market at it's now MAINTAINED commodity price, let them take "gray paper CB gold" priced at it's true value in US$ for oil." You see, this could solve the "problem of supply" that is also the problem for LBMA! We now have a "parallel market" with gold trading at its commodity value on the physical market while being held for its oil value by major players.
You don't think this is true? Think now, as the answer becomes clear:
Who is on the other side of the long gold deals that contango the metal far above its current commodity price while freezing out most small private buyers? Why is gold being slowly transformed into a new kind of hybrid asset, off traded for oil value of many thousands of dollars per oz.?
One more thing, Big trader left HK some time ago and is now in a waiting game.

In the world today there are only three assets, gold, oil and currencies. The paper currencies, so long admired and accepted are now in a war of self-destruction. They will consume each other in an end battle of "I'm the last man standing but have lost all use as a unit of value".
Each nation state is trying to add a "kicker" or "premium" to its trading paper as a means of buying oil. This does not mean any country will go without oil, they will have to work with "oil priced at a value rendering them uncompetitive". National stock and bond markets do not like this kind of news!
Inflation? We are not speaking of currency price inflation here. This is currency "destruction" because my national IOUs are being devalued by cheap oil supply problems! As was said before, the real gold market that most people invest in is gone! Any gold trading paper will evaporate in the heat of fire now starting to burn. I tell you now, when the currencies
are at nuclear war, GOLD WILL NOT TRADE

In today’s time the CBs do not sell physical gold with a purpose to drive the price down. They sell to cover open orders to buy what cannot be filled from existing stocks. Look to the US treasury sales in the late 70s. They sold 1 million a month using open bid proposals with much fanfare. If the CBs wanted physical sales to drive the price, they would sell in the same way.
The sales today are done quietly with purpose. The gold must go to the correct location. That is why these sales do not impact price as they occur, there is a waiting buyer on the other side. As all of these transactions are done thru certain merchant banks, not direct CB contact, the buy side does hold hedges.
When actual delivery takes place, months later (and usually at the same time as the CB sale statement) these hedges come off and affect the market price.

It is important to understand that none of these CB sales of physical need to go to the open
market at all! The BIS could take it all. You see, for them to take all of Canada's gold would have been as "cool water on a hot day". That small amount of currency was nothing to them. All currencies, today, are locked to the US$ for value. In a very real sense, no country can own its gold as the BIS has ties to all of it. Canada, Australia and others say openly "what is the use"?
The BIS, instead of taking it outright, places it where it's needed!
As long as there is an open market for gold, it will not be allowed to trade above its commodity price! It has far too much value for that to happen. You see, in much the same way that a zero-coupon bond trades at a discount to face, gold is traded for its discount of " money value to commodity price! Think that I a fool, because I trade gold for thousands US an oz.? You will think much on this in the future.
Banks do lend gold with a reason to control price. If gold rises above its commodity price it loses value in discount trade. They admit now to lending much where they would admit nothing before!
They do this now because of the trouble ahead. Does a CB have collateral to lend it's gold?
Understand, they only lend their good name on paper, not the gold itself. The gold that is put on the market in these deals belongs to someone else! The question is not "Are the CBs worried for the return of gold?" but, "Has our paper been lent to the wrong people?".
The BIS will not allow the distribution of all gold to settle claims. The mines of the world will be forced to sell to the BIS at the "locked" existing commodity price of gold. This will happen over many, many years as no other "official" market outside the BIS will exist.

"You see, oil will flow but oil and gold will never flow in the same direction

Gentlemen who gave us this fascinating inside information, who are they?

Another (and FOA) are "the kind of inside information that never made it into the history books and still resides at the level of former Oil Ministers and National Security Advisors." That's pretty high on the pecking order. Kind of makes you wonder who they were, no?

There are two clues as to ANOTHER's identity which significantly narrow the field of candidates. First and most important, ANOTHER was English. FOA told us so in his antepenultimate post. He was heated and anger driven in response to ORO's incoherent babble, or as FOA put it, the "words of a fool."

FOA:"I will say this for the record: Another is English and not Islamic!"

FOA's emotions got the best of him at that moment, and betrayed the location of ANOTHER's batcave, which may have ultimately influenced their final disappearance. In that same exchange, FOA reveals additional clues about himself, but I'll work back to that. The second important clue, and most obvious, is ANOTHER's clear connection with the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), and his personal knowledge of the top-secret Saudi oil for gold trade.

The BIS is the clearing house for the central banks of the world. They deal in currency and gold, and operate out of Basel, Switzerland.

According to Edward Jay Epstein's fascinating 1983 article in Harpers Magazine, the "unabashed purpose of [the BIS's] elite monthly meetings is to coordinate and, if possible, to control all the monetary activities in the industrialized world." They are run by a highly secretive group, mostly composed of European central bank governors. An example of BIS secrecy: "In 1944, following Czech accusations that the BIS was laundering gold that the Nazis had stolen from occupied Europe, the American government backed a resolution at the Bretton Woods Conference calling for the liquidation of the BIS. The naive idea was that the settlement and monetary clearing functions it provided could be taken over by the new International Monetary Fund." Sounds like America needed Michael Fassbender on the case instead of the IMF... Bottom line - this is where the Saudi trade was initiated.

Epstein describes the hierarchy of the BIS: "artfully concealed within the shell of an international bank, like a series of Chinese boxes one inside another, are the real groups and services the central bankers need - and pay to support." There is the board of directors, high level committees, and the ultimate "chinese box called the Group of Ten or simply the 'G-10'."

As of 1983, right around the time of the Saudi's secret deal, the G-10 was composed of eleven members "representing the eight European central banks, the U.S. Fed, the Bank of Canada, and the Bank of Japan. It also has one unofficial member: the governor of the Saudi Arabian Monetary Authority." Wow! Epstein got the goods for this article. What separated membership in the ultimate Chinese box?

"The prime value, which also seems to demarcate the inner club from the rest of the BIS members, is the firm belief that central banks should act independently of their home governments."

This is not an easy position to hold for an Englishman says Epstein, as the "Bank of England is under the thumb of the British government." But nevertheless, one Englishman was still admitted to this group. "Lord Richardson [BoE governor 1973-1983] was accepted by the inner club because of his personal adherence to this defining principle. But his successor, Robin Leigh-Pemberton, lacking the years of business and personal contact, probably won't be admitted to the inner circle."

So there you have it. There was one Englishman in the inner circle, and it was Lord Gordon Richardson, the former head of the Bank of England. Richardson's role at the BIS is confirmed on their website.

Attached: BIS_GR.jpg (729x818, 127.33K)

He served as Vice Chairman of the Board of Directors twice! From 1985-1988 and again from 1991-1993. I'm pretty sure number 2 is a member of the inner circle. Richardson was Governor of the Bank of England for 10 years from 1973 to 1983, and a non-executive director of the Bank of England between 1967 and 1973. He was chairman of J. Henry Schroder Wagg from 1962 to 1972, and chairman of Schroders from 1966 to 1973. Richardson was also a director of Saudi International Bank in London. Saudi International Bank was formerly known as Al Bank Al Saudi Al Alami when it was incorporated in London in 1975, also known as Gulf International Bank UK Limited.

Of course this doesn't prove anything. But there is some additional evidence that leans in the direction of Lord Richardson being ANOTHER.
Lord Richardson passed away at the age of 94. That would place him at 81 when ANOTHER started posting in 1997. It is reasonable to assume that an 81-year-old may not be as concerned with jeopardizing his positioning at the international table by posting top secret information on the internet. We know that Richardson was a veteran of WWII.

Attached: Lord_Richardson.jpg (220x271, 14.32K)

FOA signed off in his penultimate post as "Sir Douglas, Your Trail Guide." I don't know many Americans that refer to themselves as Sir, but that's neither here nor there. What is here and there, is the man who served as Secretary to Her Majesty's Treasury from 1974-1983 and UK Alternate Executive Director at the IMF from 1976 onward. One Sir Douglas Wass, born 1923, veteran of WWII, Princeton graduate, and distinguished British civil servant. Wass was Permanent Secretary to HM Treasury from 1974 to 1983 and served as joint head of the civil service in 1981.[2] He was appointed a Companion of the Order of the Bath (CB) in 1971, elevated to Knight Commander (KCB) in 1975 and further elevated to Knight Grand Cross (GCB) in 1980. In 1985, he was awarded an Honorary Degree (Doctor of Letters) by the University of Bath.[3]

Coincidence? Maybe. But I wonder if the secretary of the treasury and the head of the central bank had much interaction over their coinciding ten year terms?

Attached: Douglass_wass.jpg (216x122, 8.72K)

Finally - a cherry on top of vanilla sundae.

What the price of gold would be (blue line) if it never traded between the London a.m. and London p.m. gold fixes managed by LBMA.

Attached: 1970 ex-London Gold Price-470x342.png (470x342, 100.36K)

Do you know a place where people are smart enough to appreciate this level of detail. I feel bad for you and myself for having high expectations of biz

I do.

>muh price fixing

Central banks hold less than 20% of total gold reserves. Source:
s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prd-wret/assets/palladium/production/mineral-pubs/gold/myb1-2011-gold.pdf

Attached: This kills the gold conspiracist.png (365x103, 20.33K)

?

Attached: LMBA_price_fix.jpg (642x941, 228.38K)

Your erroneous assumption is that the price is fixed, when your own post points out that LMBA is the auction infrastructure.

Can you please summarize your post in a sentence or two?

? ICE is a clearing house that offers the service, not LBMA. Please read carefully.

Attached: 4A4F70DB-20AB-4D28-B392-FBD00BAD0F75.jpg (643x820, 75.06K)

Thanks OP.

I skimmed most of it. But just want to say that this is incredible detail and all shoukd read.

Whats the long and short of this?
Good or bad news for us?

Read it and come to your own conclusion.

Search the web for more.

Attached: Charles.jpg (634x423, 78.62K)

perceived value vs true value vs usable value
diamonds < gold < oil
???

lots to digest, thanks for the thoughts

John Exter's pyramid of value.

Attached: Exters pyramid.jpg (819x1024, 311.04K)

created during a time of bimetallic currency?
fed notes don't have the same value anymore...
jekyll island sham...

gold persists millennia but this chart seems dated

View at as 'westerner thought' of value.

When the times get rough, all buy treasuries and hoard cash, no?

the paper is more valuable for starting kindling
gold for houses, silver for bread
perhaps invest in something else instead?

no doubt a reversion is due, but what's the next phoenix??

I'm afraid silver is not part of the equation.

well then, he who has the gold makes the golden rules

game over for those that aren't in the club?

Only half way through reading, but I would like to thank you OP. Why is value of oil in terms of gold going up, while its going down in terms of paper? How does your theory mesh with the concept of the petro dollar, petro dollar recycling etc? Why does the US seek to maintain the value of oil, while also giving up gold to get it from the ME? Why doesn't the us stop selling gold to maintain the oil price in terms of paper USD right now? Because that would further raise the price of gold?

This is an incomprehensible mess

It doesnt matter for saudis. They can produce, or flood the world with even much cheaper oil. What does matter is that as partial payment they will get a "piece of flesh", rather than paper notes.

The US stopped gold flow in the early 80s. Gold flew directly from mines/market backed by CB guarantees of delivery, thus limiting impact on government stockpile (which was also lent out to support operations)

Also, see here

The fantasy bullshit goldfags believe is unfuckingbelivable! You want gold go to any pawn shot and buy it for the same price as it’s on paper. It’s a useless boomer coin tho. And heavy and hard to keep safe. Only real use is in negotiating, you can offer gold to idiots and they’ll give u a discount

kek, based self-referencer

Good thread, thanks! So what’s the best way to survive this, buying physical gold from dealers if they get some supply again?

> silver not relevant
Is bitcoin?

usagold.com/goldtrail/archives/another1.html

OPs info is just a copy/paste from 1997.
Still, relevant information

Lot of info.
Will read later.
Wish I knew more about economics and finance, so ic ould contribute, perhaps with some other nice info dump I sincerely believe in.

Have a bump

how is silver not part of the equation? or rather, why?

>how is silver not part of the equation
bc OP is a script kiddie LARPER and he only downloaded some goldpill from ‘97. If Schiff came in and dropped a silver pill on top of this we’d really be cooking’ up a legendary bread

Attached: A9B83D34-F66F-42DA-A1E6-1DCFCDD5D9A4.jpg (3024x2567, 2.79M)