/who/ - Doctor Who General

>In this thread lets write lyrics

Doctor in Distress.
He should never fit in a dress!

>because HE JUST DOES!!! is basically the counter-argument.
now i'm not trying to say other people that were part of his life did something wrong or were of lower worth, but moffat wrote clara in a way that would make it unusual if he didn't care about her a great deal. and the fact he went through all that to save her does not devalue past companions, on the contrary, he knows how shit it feels to lose the people he lost, and his efforts in heaven sent happen because he wants to avoid that feeling and not lose his friend.
i'm not, i like it when criticism is given, just not when it's circular arguments that are either grossly overstated or just a very lengthy way of saying "i didn't like the writing"

DOCTOR IN A DRESS,
LET'S ALL HIDE FROM HER PMS.
THE SHOW IS IN A MESS.
WILDERNESS NOW, WE WON'T TAKE LESS.

Attached: tfw-in-distress.png (949x702, 609.44K)

dai dot ly/xaveyh
Holy mother of kino

Attached: Seven_Search_Out_Science_Search_Out_Space.jpg (1024x768, 60.46K)

Selling Anthony Ainley figure, £2,000

Reminder that /who/ still hasn't rebutted The Heaven Sent autist on:
>The Plot/ Mystery (It doesn't work)
The Plot: The Doctor is trapped in a labyrinth which changes layout at random times, and which periodically resets. He is pursued by a phantom representing his worst fear which can only be appeased by confessions.
The Mystery: Who trapped him, and why? Who left the mysterious trail of clues and messages - "I am in 12" and what do they mean?
Why It Fails: The story breaks by its own rules. Worse still, unless the story breaks its own rules, there is no story. The clues and riddles that drive the plot should be wiped out by the reset. Thus, what should be a shocking twist - there is no escape, and the Doctor has no mysterious helper, as he left himself the clues in a previous loop - should leave alert viewers confused, frustrated and sceptical. The fundamental, unbreakable rule of the castle is that every room resets - except for when it doesn't, for no apparent reason except the sake of convenience.

>The Monster
The Doctor has confronted far worse horrors than something as mundane as a dead body in a sheet, so its arbitrary promotion to his "greatest fear" doesn't really make any sense - it's character-breaking and world-breaking. It's also a weird by-product of Moffat's obsession with writing the Doctor as a lonely child growing up on a rural farm in Scotlan - sorry, Gallifrey. The immortal, immeasurably powerful, unfathomably wise race of Time Lords apparently just dump their dead bodies to rot and fester in rustic, medieval peasant villages. This presents a confusing vision of Time Lord society, at odds with our established knowledge of their ancient and intricate society.

It was a cold wet night in March
15 years ago,
There was a police box in a alley
We didn't know where it would go,
A veteran took a chav
Into time and space,
It started off a legend
That no other could replace.

>The Motivation
There is nothing special about Clara that the Doctor should want to destroy the fabric of space-time to resurrect her. There is nothing in their bond or their relationship that we are shown that justifies his fanatical infatuation and obsession. The Doctor has lost friends, family, lovers - even children - to wars, to disease, to violence, to sacrifice, to time, to any number of injustices - yet he is willing to destroy the fabric of space-time for a school-teacher that effectively committed suicide because she's an adrenaline junkie.
This retroactively cheapens every other death, tragedy or injustice the Doctor hasn't gone insane trying to undo or fix. Apparently, Clara Oswald is the most important person that has ever existed across all of time and space. For this reason, the episode rings emotionally hollow. It makes little sense, and either turns the Doctor into a deranged, monstrously selfish, deluded, lovesick obsessive, or a callous, uncaring sociopath who was content to allow the deaths of hundreds, even thousands, even millions of others with relative equanimity.

>The Monologue
There's moments of genuine emotion, humanity, and even philosophy in the Doctor's poignant reflections on grief. Unfortunately, this is undermined by atonal absurdist humour (The Doctor attempting to psychically commune with a door to ask it to open, rather than just using the handles) and pseudo-philosophical, nonsensical quips such as the line about gardening being a dictatorship (If so, given the gardener's efforts to preserve and nurture a diversity of life, as well as ensure their health and safety, and in doing so create a haven for all forms of wildlife, we can only conclude dictatorships are utopian paradises).
More than that though - and bringing it round to the first point - much of the monologue is just unnecessary exposition. It's the Doctor telling us things that we could just be shown, to create the illusion that the Doctor's actions are important and represent the forward movement of the plot - which, once revealed, does not make sense. Far too much of the monologue is the Doctor simply narrating things that we, the viewer, can see anyway. Bizarrely, it's almost written like a radio play, and not a TV episode. The mystery itself - even if we ignore the plot holes - isn't particularly deep. The Doctor is trapped in an inescapable prison until he confesses or dies. I'm not sure why the Time Lords don't just use the Matrix to extract the memories from the Doctor, but then I don't think Moffat is either.

WHO'S THAT DOCTAH OVER THERE?

Attached: doctor in distress.png (908x621, 460.96K)

it was, though. the castle is not perfect, its original purpose wasn't torture, it was peaceful solitude
and the second argument isn't really about the monster, it's about that user hating the idea of time lords having an uneven society and that the doctor was freaked out by a decaying body when he was a boy

Doctor in distress,
Let's all answer his S.O.S.,
Doctor in distress,
Bring him back now, we won't take less.

As someone who disagreed with him, I recognise that he wasn't being negative about the performance or direction (which is fair enough).

He was, however, focussing over smaller things that can be explained away (in fact, Moffat did in Doctor Who Magazine) and was clearly stuck on just straight up not accepting that 12 could be so fixated on getting Clara back.

The funny thing is that the unhealthy obsession was then explored in Hell Bent and it's established the real Clara would have told him to stop unlike his imagined version. Even if an user doesn't 'buy' the Doctor loving Clara THAT MUCH they could just interpret it as the Doctor's need to win in any situation - especially in a trap devised by the Time Lords.

is that she-mickey?

you're just reposting the same stuff that's already been argued about from every angle. it quickly falls apart when you realize how much of the show that user ignores to make his points, or how "i didnt like it" isn't an argument fit for a debate

I'll give you £6 for it

>Ma Hoe

Attached: Jewdoon.jpg (512x288, 30.17K)

it was a good argument, a bit too autistic from both sides, but really gives insight into how differently some people interpreted hs
i'm going to bed though

I want Kris Marshall as the doctor and a showrunner who actually likes the show. Is that too much to ask?

Attached: Florence.jpg (1062x963, 238.6K)

can we move on from the endless debates? dont we all hate chibwho? wasn't all that what bringed us all back together?

okay, put on your trip next time

never used one

he would be perfect

Attached: Kris Marshall in Return to Sender.png (1417x1417, 2.03M)

£7.50

I'm not gonna be a pseud and write a thesis on Heaven Sent. I liked it because the Doctor killing himself is fucking metal and because he looked like David Lynch in a velvet coat. Fuck you all.

There's nothing to rebut. No one cares if you don't like an episode.

Shitting on ChibWho is getting a bit boring now since it's the same stuff over again. We need a new thing to unite against.

£7 and not a penny more, final offer

The Masque of Mandragora just started. I think I liked this one.

sold

>tfw fell for the Kris Marshall would be the next doctor rumor so I watched all of Death in Paradise
I'm glad I did, for lack of a better word the show is really comfy in a way that I can't really explain.

Chib being shit is such a universal truth here that it's like agreeing that the laws of thermodynamics are true. I'd rather we all agreed that 10 surviving the fall in End of Time was hilarious when you consider 4's regeneration.

Wow, this was kino.

Attached: The_Renaissance_Man_cover.jpg (600x600, 95.4K)

lelaa on audio is the best companion

he's had hundreds of years to attune himself with gravity, it's not a problem for him any more.

Full disclosure - I am that user

>He was, however, focussing over smaller things that can be explained away (in fact, Moffat did in Doctor Who Magazine)

But isn't this the same as the Marvel/ Star Wars stuff where the answer to every plot-hole/ shallow character is "read the novels/ extended Universe!"

If Moffat has to clarify something in a magazine, he's doing something wrong.

Incidentally, this is the interview:

radiotimes.com/news/2016-01-07/steven-moffat-has-filled-in-the-plot-holes-from-doctor-who-heaven-sent/

>His solution? Write ambiguous clues (“I am in 12”) all over the castle, hoping that some might survive the dodgy resetting process like the skulls in the lake, the drying clothes and the dust in the teleport room (as well as the portrait of Clara, which Moffat says the “soppy” Doctor painted himself). In the end the paving slab did make it through the reset, and the Doctor’s mission became a lot easier.

It just seems like the "dodgy resetting process" is a plot contrivance/ convenience, since the plot is entirely dependent on the resets working, but the mystery is entirely dependent on them NOT working. Also - why be ambiguous? Does the ambiguity of the clue make it more likely to survive the reset, or is it another contrivance so that there is still a mystery? It wouldn't be as big of a deal if the mystery itself - and working it out in the TARDIS Sherlock mind-palace - was such a major focus of the episode.

>and was clearly stuck on just straight up not accepting that 12 could be so fixated on getting Clara back.

This probably has a counter-point - the best one I found (and partially) wrote was here:

But the reason it's a problem is here:

>Why did Ten describe Donna this way in front of the Shadow Proclamation? If anything, Donna is in fact dressed more conservatively than Rose - and yet he never insinuated that she was a chavvy hoe. In fact, her accepting Mickey's invitation to a hotel in Boom Town earned this far more, and I could no longer take the scene seriously.
>Why did the Donna think to look for Pyrovilia as a missing planet but not the Doctor? Surely his intellect and memory would have made him ask first.

An opinion I can respect

you wish, fuck off chinball

I remember hearing a theory that each regeneration adapts the body depending on how the regeneration how killed. So for example, since 4 fell to his death all of the Doctors after became a little more fall resistant.

I'm in the middle of his run right now, user. Just started Series 4 episode 2. Very off-putting to see Shakespeare murdered in the first scene...

In all seriousness though, spotting the overlap between this and British actors who've guest-starred in nuWho is fun. My God is absolutely is the cosiest thing ever.

since 11th died of old age, the 12th doctor was an old man from the beginning

I love 4 and Leela in S14 and on audio, but hate them in S15. Goes from a wholesome relationship where their two contrasting personalities and ways of life compliment each other to 4 just shitting on Leela and calling her a dumb Savage every five minutes.

>you're just reposting the same stuff that's already been argued
Which nobody has refuted

>it quickly falls apart when you realize how much of the show that user ignores to make his points
Such as?

I love spotting all the guest actors in it, Super hans from peep show is in one of the last series, that was a nice surprise.