POMPEY MAGNUS I HAVE A QUESTION CONCERNING YOUR FRIEND AND CO-CONSUL-- THE DARLING OF VENUS, GAIUS JULIUS CAESAR.
WHY DOES HIS CHAIR REMAIN EMPTY ? WHY DOES HE NOT COME HOME ? HIS ILLEGAL WAR IS OVER.
GAUL IS LONG SINCE ON ITS KNEES.
WHY DOES CAESAR KEEP HIS BRAVE SOLDIERS FROM THEIR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS ? FOR EIGHT LONG YEARS, HE HAS GORGED HIMSELF LIKE A WOLF ON THE BLOOD OF GAUL, AND THEREBY MADE HIMSELF MONSTROUSLY RICH.
- WHY ? WHY DOES HE PLY THE MOB WITH RACES AND FIGHTS AND GAUDY FEASTS ? WHY HAS HE PAID THE DEBTS OF EVERY REPROBATE FOOL IN THIS SENATE HOUSE ? WHY ?! I'LL TELL YOU WHY HE DOES THESE THINGS.
HE WANTS TO BUY HIMSELF A CROWN.
HE WANTS TO DESTROY THE REPUBLIC AND RULE ROME AS A BLOODY TYRANT ! THAT'S WHY ! THEREFORE, I MOVE THAT CAESAR'S GOVERNORSHIP IN GAUL BE TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY, THAT HIS ARMIES BE DISBANDED AND THAT HE BE RECALLED TO ROME TO ANSWER CHARGES OF ILLEGAL WARFARE, THEFT, BRIBERY AND TREASON !
POMPEY MAGNUS I HAVE A QUESTION CONCERNING YOUR FRIEND AND CO-CONSUL-- THE DARLING OF VENUS, GAIUS JULIUS CAESAR
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he's busy fucking your sister faggot, sit the fuck down.
Was Cato historically this swole?
He was in the army wasn't he?
>ILLEGAL WARFARE
What? There was such thing as illegal warfare back then?
Probably, seeing as he had a military career and lifestyle was more prone to staying fit. Plus he was a roman patrician, so he was perhaps more inclined to keep a chad-tier physique.
If the Senate didn't greenlight your campaign, you could be under suspicion of gathering local approval to your secret agenda, loot for your personal army etc.
So yes, you more or less needed mum&dad's permission to go fight the gauls and you had better be back for dinner.
How did Pompey not crush Caesar is beyond me, he had every advantage possible...
Rome had laws user, it's just that if you were powerful enough no one could stop you from breaking them.
You had to serve 10 years in army to get even shittest public service job. Consuls were literal generals of the armies. Not the sitting in capital and sending out orders types.
Oh so just like nowadays?
War could make a man rich in slaves and plunder so the Senate was very careful about who went to war when and why. You didn't want the "wrong" guy to be too successful so raising a legion and marching off to kick ass and get paid without senate approval was very much illegal. It's exactly what Cato is accusing Caesar of, he went to war with the gauls under a legal edict but then stayed to plunder past the point of accomplishing his mission to fund bribes and gifts buying himself enough favor in Rome to crown himself king.
>There was such thing as illegal warfare back then?
Consuls were generals in field but it was senate who made the decision to go to war. They would give an army to a consul and send him doing all the shit they voted for.
>he was a roman patrician
He wasn't
Ahhhh ok, I thought he was referring to like war crimes and things like that. Like, no you can't kill prisoners of war, you can't kill innocent people and stuff like that. Like we have today with the Geneva Convention and all of that that regulates war.
>I thrice presented him a kingly crown
>Which he did thrice refuse
...
Why did Decimus do it?
They all left because they knew they knew they'd laugh and they were afraid Anthony would kill them, right?
SNIVELRY
wtf was his problem
Brando was fucking great in this.
Why was politics so fucking good 2000 years ago? Rhetoric is a dead art.
based and truepilled
Cato got cucked at every turn by Caesar and thinking he was anything more than a grown baby outs you as the same. I am glad they got an old weak fart to play him, he captures Catos pathetic aura perfectly.
mass media
The interesting thing is that all Pompey had to do was nothing
Had he waited out Caesar's dwindling supplies in Greece, Caesar would have been forced to surrender
Instead he tried to fight a cornered snake
not really,
If this was Rome, Bloomberg would have hired himself half the army and marched on Washington
Oration and rhetoric are dead in western nations because the votes of modern 'democratic' representatives are decided long before they're cast. You could perform the best speech in modern history to the US senate, and not sway a single vote. Britain might also be a disaster of a democracy, but at least until recently it has kept more of it's tradition of oration. Listen:
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also:
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instead of oration we have whatever the hell Trump is doing these days
*note this is not for or against Trump's policies, just pointing out that his speeches are not exactly a beacon of rhetoric
THIS rhetoric was still pretty good until the 1970s.
Based Mosley
Like him not, Trump is quite good with his retorick, at least I think so. I remember his first speech when he won as quite good. And also the one in the UN
Anyone know if Cato actually used that sick black garm? And if there is a reason or mening behind it?
it was to make him stand out since he is an indistinguishable beta not worthy of note
Mourning the death of the Republic, I think.
Egalitarianism. When you have to apply to the lowest common denominator, you have to talk like a retard.
Every prominent Roman politician had served in the military, it was a requirement to hold public office. Even Cicero was in the army.
Actually there was something along those lines at the time, Caesar's political opponents argued that he had unjustly attacked the Gauls and some of them were in favor of handing Caesar over to the Gauls to be tortured and murdered as repayment. Just in case anyone wonders why Caesar crossed the Rubicon. Man was absolutely fucked if he went quietly.
1. Caesar moved too fast for Pompey at the beginning, right after taking Rome he turned around, went to Spain, and crushed Pompey's army there, depriving Pompey of his best soldiers.
2. Pompey got cocky in Greece. He wasn't willing to wait Caesar out, his ego demanded the big battle. Pompey "Magnus" couldn't just let thirst and hunger do his dirty work for him, history's most obsessive Alexander the Great LARPer just had to win in combat.
3. Caesar was just better than Pompey, as he proved at Pharsalus
I didnt know their were jews in the roman senate
Why do so many depictions show Cato as an old man when he was younger than Caesar and died before he was 50?
Probably to emphasize him being super-conservative
Sounds like Middle East haha
weird how they made cicero a cowardly third wheel sort of guy when in reality he got shit done
>Caesar's political opponents argued that he had unjustly attacked the Gauls
Did you need a justification to conquer other people back then? Was this written into law? First time I hear about this.
the romans really liked to pretend they had good reasons for their conquests
caesar didn't play their retarded game the way they liked
yes.
Oh now I know where did the USA learn their policy of always waiting to be attacked first to then respond as the victim...
Yes. All Roman wars had to be officially defensive. You had to be either responding to an attack on Rome or a Roman ally.
Of course it was easy as fuck to always generate an excuse. In Casesar's case there was a tribe called the Helvetii who were migrating through the lands of a Roman allied tribe. Caesar then attacked and defeated the Helvetii. This then lead to another conflict, and then another.
>Did you need a justification to conquer other people back then?
Kind of. The Romans liked having a "defensive" justification for every war they fought, even if it was naked aggression.
Rome the show did a great job showing why he attacked. He was basically goaded into it by the Senate.
Probably didn't know he would he heir number two or perhaps he had fallen from Caesar's grace but Caesar hadn't changed his will yet to reflect that.
pussy whipped by cleo
Like what? In the timeframe of S1 (between Caesar crossing the Rubicon and the Ides of March) wasn't he a bit of a fencesitter?
I don't know if he wore a black toga but he always had his shoulders bare as in he didn't wear a tunic under the toga like everyone else. I think it had to do with "muh old ways" and "muh stoic nature"
What gave mark antony the right to offer him a crown?
So exactly what I said here then.
Yes, and generals in the field had to be consuls and appointed by the Senate.
There was a general sentiment of the time, at least the perception of many in the time period, that Rome only fought defensive wars in protection of its self or its allies. For example, the punic war involving Hannibal was fought over the pre-text that Hannibal had attacked Sanguntum in Spain, a roman allied city state. Hannibal was expanding Carthaginian interests in Spain due to the peace treaty imposed by the First Punic War.
Rome was basically trying to play technicalities by issuing a statement saying that Sanguntum was an allied city, and thus went to war under the pre-text of defending its allies (which it didn't really give a shit about, just wanted the optics). Something similar happened in the 1st punic war, though that city state in Sicily basically was trying to pull a fast one on both empires at the time.
What's really interesting is the concept of tax farming, and why being a governor was so fucking lucrative. Caesar was taking Gaul because other territories, like Spain and Greece, were already farmed out and was untapped potential in the form of tax revenue for decades later.
They really fucking hated Cicero. Poor guy didn't get any praise in the show. Even his legendary rhetorical asskicking of Antony was reduced to one lousy speech that he didn't even orate himself in the show.
>Caesar was taking Gaul because other territories, like Spain and Greece, were already farmed out and was untapped potential in the form of tax revenue for decades later.
Also he could make a shitload by selling slaves, all while paying his soldiers handsomely (securing their loyalty to him personally) and increasing his own prestige/popularity back home. Big win for Caesar all around.
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Your bait is shit, stop trying
Based. Cato couldn't even get elected Consul; what a fucking loser
Of course, but that was only the initial influx of cash. Being a governor could go on for years and milk that sweet Gallic cow dry.
Basically you needed the (((Senate))) approval
Why can threads on /his/ never be like this?
>What's really interesting is the concept of tax farming, and why being a governor was so fucking lucrative. Caesar was taking Gaul because other territories, like Spain and Greece, were already farmed out and was untapped potential in the form of tax revenue for decades later.
And Gaul, modern day France, it's known as the most productive farm land in Europe.
Because history takes their craft seriously and only demands pre-approved sources by academically cited sources, leading to dry source material which reflects in their discussions. They attach their egos to their knowledge of a certain subject so critiquing their knowledge on the subject feels like a attack against the self, which leads to arguments and "ACKSHUALLY" type bullshit.
If you take history as a hobby, you learn all the fun intricacies and go down rabbit holes and explore it with an open mind, don't attach an ego to it and just make it fun.
Sometimes, people confuse him with his great grandfather. But his great grandfather was made of stronger material.
If Julius Caesar had to contend with Cato the Elder, he most likely would go down in history as "that good general who gave plenty of glory to Rome but ended up being exiled by Cato".
You needed official approval from the Senate in theory. In practice the Triumvirate made a mockery of this because they owned the Senate. That's why Cato's speech is pointless, there is no "legal" or "illegal" at this point in Roman history, as long as Caesar and Pompey were on the same team they could do whatever the fuck they wanted to do.
The worst posts here such as are more or less what you would expect to get on /his/
It is not a very good board.
I would love to have seen a what if of Rome with Crassus
not dying like a pleb.
>Caesar was taking Gaul because other territories, like Spain and Greece, were already farmed out and was untapped potential in the form of tax revenue for decades later.
he wanted the knife at italy's throat the crafty fuck, gaul was the closest legal place to italy he could hold his own legions
far flung provincial governors got fucked over all the time, but what are you gonna do? march your legions across half the known world while rome prepares? cesar knew this
Ouch, guess i was wrong. I just made a blanket statement without info and put my foot in my mouth.
Wasn't Cato the one who basically said to Sulla in a party he attended that he wished he had a sword so Cato could kill Sulla where he stood?
I think Crassus was the oldest of the three by a huge margin (like 20 years), so even if he hadn't gotten fucked at Carrhae I think it would have only delayed the inevitable Caesar-Pompey clash because he would be senile or dead while the younger two were still able to lead men in battle.
>he wanted the knife at italy's throat the crafty fuck, gaul was the closest legal place to italy he could hold his own legions
Giving him too much credit, he was in an insane amount of debt and needed to generate some cash quick. Like this guy said, Gaul was the place to do it because Pompey/Crassus had already bled everywhere else dry.
>Wasn't Cato the one who basically said to Sulla in a party he attended that he wished he had a sword so Cato could kill Sulla where he stood?
Yes
>According to Plutarch, at one point during the height of the civil strife, as respected Roman nobles were being led to execution from Sulla's villa, Cato, aged about 14, asked his tutor why no one had yet killed the dictator. Sarpedon's answer was thus: "They fear him, my child, more than they hate him." Cato replied to this, "Give me a sword, that I might free my country from slavery."
Cato got away with it though because Sulla was on good terms with his family
Nah I was more referring to the fact that not one poster has tried to derail the thread into some meme discourse about black people.
>Wasn't Cato the one who basically said to Sulla in a party he attended that he wished he had a sword so Cato could kill Sulla where he stood?
Cato the Younger said this to someone else, I think. But Sulla liked him.
>I think Crassus was the oldest of the three by a huge margin (like 20 years), so even if he hadn't gotten fucked at Carrhae I think it would have only delayed the inevitable Caesar-Pompey clash because he would be senile or dead while the younger two were still able to lead men in battle.
I think the biggest one was Julia dying. It was funny as hell reading criticisms of Pompeii during this period, as basically the aristocratic element in rome was calling him a effeminate fag for actually loving his wife during his period of mourning. They would have found another person for the Triumvirate and worked around it had Julia still been alive.