Movies too smart for the popcorn audience

All it proved was that nothing matters in fiction anymore because anything can be anything and faggots like you will defend that out of spite.

See, you didn't get it.

arguing with tlj detractors is fruitless because you lot refuse to meet the first condition of a productive discussion which is to accept that the other person is arguing in good faith. i like the movie; you don’t like the movie. i probably disagree with your criticisms of the movie but i can at least accept that they’re sincere. if you can’t accede to this basic assumption of good faith then what point is there even to you continuing to argue about the movie? you can scream that everyone who likes the movie is a corporate shill or an sjw or a spiteful contrarian until you’re blue in the face but it makes no difference.

and for the record i also think tlj fans that accuse all detractors of being alt-right anti-sjws white male incels are also intellectually lazy and arguing in bad faith

>the other person is arguing in good faith.
What argument? The only arguments ever produced are some tenuous post-hoc themes or some happy glee that the fanboys are mad and "just didnt' get it."

I would legitimately struggle to think of something smart this movie did

it goes out of its way to be excessively, unbelievably stupid with impressive frequency

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>quotes tros teaser trailer

If this is too smart for you, you are tard just like Rian.

On the other hand i am glad that he killed this abortion of a trilogy before Disney could milk this shit

Maybe it would help if you haters stopped pretending that the film is SJW and actually argued honestly?

Only idiots think that all situations are absolutely equal and that there can be no nuance to human decisions.

i’m the same user as 131031312

>I outright contradicted myself for no logical or intelligent reason
>It's nuance
>Knowing wink to my fellow third weekers

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No, user, you just don't understand how human beings work.

>wise elderly person at the end of their life achieves their final purpose and passes away peacefully
>young reckless person attempts unauthorized suicide mission and is prevented from doing so to keep fighting another day

how do these contradict each other?

Characters acted like idiots because plot (holdo)
Hyperspace ramming
Mary popin leia
Luke is a coward but mary sue ray is capable to do anything
Dumb casino scene

Okay. So you're not one of them, sorry. But the main point still stands: No one would accuse anyone of being politically motivated if you wouldn't get called an SJW for liking the film and if haters didn't project their own political biases into both the film and the debate.

Calm down Devin

>Characters acted like idiots because plot (holdo)
Holdo was less of an idiot like Poe. You just thought otherwise because you self-inserted into him, which is why you are now butthurt that he (read: you) was shown to be a retard.

>Hyperspace ramming
Nothing wrong with that. It probably also didn't happen when anyone was in hyperspace, so the name is misleading.

>Mary popin leia
Sorry that Carrie Fisher died and they couldn't refilm it in post production.

>mary sue ray is capable to do anything
Except succeding at her training, knowing what the force is, bringing Luke back with her, not being tempted by the dark side, redeeming Kylo Ren, beating Snoke, beating Kylo Ren or anything that she set out to do in this film. Funny.

>Dumb casino scene
Not everything you don't understand is dumb.

i mostly agree with you but i don’t think poe is a retard, just brash and reckless. for some reason people seem to have gotten the impression that leia and holdo dislike poe and just want to undermine him for no reason except #misandry and #girlbossery but a faithful viewing makes it clear that they’re intentionally priming him for a leadership role and trying to curtail aspects of his personality that were more a liability than anything.

Yeah, sorry. I might have been a bit hyperbolic calling him an idiot. It's not as if he didn't see reason in the end when he had the big picture. (I wish one could say the same for the fanboys.)

It's not a hard movie to understand. It's a hard movie to like. I can count maybe three things that I enjoyed about the movie and none of them are significant to the whole of the movie.

It's…kind of amazing. I think it was some utterly-clumsy attempt at subversion, but in hindsight, it does stand as some kind of 4d chess move to completely fuck the franchise up so much…SO MUCH that Episode IX would end up being exponentially worse, from feeling the overcompensating need to provide damage-control fan service ON TOP of the already-expected JJ fan service while haphazardly putting out so many of TLJ's fires.

In the end ROS is a worse film that TLJ, which is amazing. I can't comprehend how that actually happened, but it did.

TFA had a clean mask… "hey look, I'm a Star Wars, with all those familiar Star Wars feels. I have to kill off someone important, though, so you have some traumatic emotion to bind your heart to me, but we'll get through it together with the power of God and nostalgia on our side!"

Then TLJ tore that mask clean off. Told us "This is bullshit. I'm a franchise with no direction and no story. Nothing is really here. Nothing here is important. It's all throwaway, so I will throw it all away."

And by the time ROS appears, it's confirmed. Just like Ren's mask, it is back on, but permanently damaged. We can see the cracks, now…the fractured visage of money-grubbers that don't ultimately have a depth of soul or vision to share. Just cannibals dancing in the skins of those they've poached.

Terrible movies, but what an interesting meta study of filmmaking and how keen an individual's sense is to what REALLY matters in an IP, even silly throwaway ones.

>It's not a hard movie to understand.
Are you sure? I see lots of people blatantly misunderstanding even the most simplistic major plotpoints. Look at, for example, the sheer number of people who thought that "Let the past die" was the central message of TLJ.

>Look at, for example, the sheer number of people who thought that "Let the past die" was the central message of TLJ.
Case in point:

>Then TLJ tore that mask clean off. Told us "This is bullshit. I'm a franchise with no direction and no story. Nothing is really here. Nothing here is important. It's all throwaway, so I will throw it all away."

It's a shit movie made by a director/writer who genuinley doesn't understand what deconstruction/trope subversion is.

I saw 7 people walk out of this when I watched it the 2nd time with a friend, and all the bad reviews are basically "boohoo it didn't make me feel happy like muh disney does"

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>when Snyder does shit this on-the-nose, dipshits miss the point and call it “hamfisted”
>when Retard Johnson does it, “critics” literally can’t stop sucking his dick

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Of maybe you're just a retard and the "critics" actually understand filmmaking ?

>Snyderfags still seething 4 years later
Hilarious

is this in reference to tlj or uncut gems? lol
i saw tlj twice in theaters, both time the audience reaction felt good. people were responsive to it.

How was it smart? Elaborate

Uncut Gems. First time I watched with my dad at Alamo Drafthouse and everyone seemed to like it. Second time was with a friend at a mall theater and a bunch of people walked out after Howard gets thrown in the fountain. My friend liked it though.

How was what smart?

This user has the right idea. TLJ is pure genius in how it tears down every single false idol TFA set up, as well as showing just how hollow nostalgic retreads really are.
Even the people who like TLJ are idiots, and you can tell by how much they hate TRoS. That film vindicates TLJ. By that point the franchise was so derailed that the path of least resistance would be to just roll with the punches and create something genuinely new. And yet we got another shameless retread of another, better film. We got to see Abram's total lack of creativity as he bashed the square peg into the round hole by any means necessary

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It's a Rian Johnson film. They have a tendency to unravel pretty badly the moment critical thought is applied to them. Great for topical "smartness" though.

Absolutely unequivocally based.

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>critical thought
If your idea of "critical thought" is Mauler-tier nitpicking and having a headcanon for physics ("there's no gravity or conservation of movement in space"), I have bad news for you.

This

It's literally one of the worst movies of the 2010s but I admire Rian for killing Star Wars and the disney shills ITT for not giving up after this shit franchise crashed and burned with this shit movie.

More like the movie fails at the basics of structured narrative, but also yes the hyperspace ramming is absolutely retarded and breaks consistency within TLJ and Star Wars universe as a whole, that's why the IP is a money sink now

Not Jar Jar Abrams started this abortion of a trilogy, Rian Johnson was just kindly enough to put it out of misery

most tlj fans hate tros, how are you an uncritical disney shill if you only like one installment in the new trilogy?

never understood this meme, most of the movie is just a slow speed chase because lol gas and then they get into a different ship, whats smart about it?

>More like the movie fails at the basics of structured narrative
No, it doesn't. It complies with pretty much every narrative structure in literary theory that I know of. Aristotle (for what little he wrote about structure), traditional three-act-installments, and most importantly Freytag's five-act-drama.
Which "narrative structure" is it you are speaking of? I'm sure you have some academically accurate foundation for your claim, right?

>the hyperspace ramming is absolutely retarded
No, it isn't. Only when you presuppose things about it that the film never stated (for example that it happened in hyperspace) do you ever get to the conclusion that it wasn't consistent with established lore.

-It actually has some thematic meat unlike literally every other Star Wars film and connects its theme to the journeys of its characters.
-It simultaneously shits on nostalgia and embraces it, ultimately destroying the new trilogy and exposing it for the soulless mess it is.
A movie being 'smart' and a movie having a complicated plot aren't the same thing.

>and then they get into a different ship
Congrats, you didn't understand the film.

Jar Jar is the textbook definition of a hack and I can't understand how can anyone watch the entirety of L O S T and think the man ever had any talent inside his kike head, but Star Wars was alive when he left it and dead after Rian did his thing. Rian is the murderer, this is an easy case

Explain it to me then, faggot. Explain to me why gets a pass. What’s deep or significant about his use of symbolism there?

>It actually has some thematic meat
like what? nothing happens and its over. you could watch 7 and 9 and not miss a thing

Hyperspacing through a shield, then somehow braking without smashing into the surface or giving everyone onboard a fatal case of whiplash was pretty fucking retarded too. So no, it's very consistent with the idiocy of the sequel trilogy

Star Wars is massively overrated in general. The best Star Wars movie is a "meh" at the most.

based peak contrarian