How identity in Nation-States like France differs from identity in non-Nation States like USA and South Africa.
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Trevor Noah called the French National team African, and a French guy got mad. This shows a difference between South Africa/USA and France with regards to identity.
In France, calling the minorities African is seen as an insult to their Frenchness. I think this is because France is a Nation-State, where the state is for the nation, so anybody that holds a French passport now has French identity, and referring to them as Senegalese contradicts this.
In USA, minorities do not find it offensive by being called minorities. That's because "American", has always referred to a citizenship, not a people or ethnicity. USA is not a nation-state. A Mexican here would never get mad at being called Mexican, even if he is third generation and barely speaks Spanish.
In France, the identities are French and not French, and if you call immigrants something other than French you are insulting them. In America, identities are White, Black, Latino, none of which have anything to do with citizenship.
How identity in Nation-States like France differs from identity in non-Nation States like USA and South Africa
France isn't a nation state either, the entire identity of "French" is a civic nationalist invention of the French Revolution.
ye it's a big taboo to refer to non white as anything but "fellow french citizen"
non whites / migrants are not supposed to pretend that they are anything but french too
racial census/data is not allowed
As if, he didn't even call them "afro-french" like they would with african americans. he is just some mutt retard who is trying to co-opt the achivements of french people for some delusional african supremacy mindset.
IIRC that comes from when the Prussians fucked you up and your government was afraid your german citizens would suffer reprisal.
All nationalities are a invention, the difference is that nation-states managed to convince their population that they're all from the same ethnicity.
Civic nationalism doesn't exist though. It's a burgerpunk alt-right invention
In a way its a product of their assimilationism, they forced everyone to give up their regional identities now they force immigrants to give up theres.
it did contribute, but jacobinism started decades earlier, in the early 1800s only 10% of France could speak french, so they had to pretend that all regional identities didnt exists and everyone was french
>France
>Nation state
>Civic nationalism doesn't exist though
People who are proud of being Brazilian are civic nationalists by definition
patriotism is loving your country, nationalism is hating other countries
Nationalism is subscribing to the idea that states should be based around a nation. Ultra-nationalism is the idea of hating other countries.
Patriotism is just being enthusiastic about your homeland, country, region or whatever, its a broad term
Nice platitude
ultra-nationalism is the idea of hating other countries
regular nationalism is the idea of prioritizing your country specifically to the detriment of other countries
It was a De Gaulle quote
"Nationalism is war" is an other french quote from a famous french president (Miterrand)
can I please choke on your French bvll cock
I don't really buy this definition. A German or Italian Nationalist in the 19th century wanted to create a German or Italian state, it had nothing to do with other countries. They just wanted the German nation state to exist.
Same with Irish nationalists in the 20th century and today, they want the Irish nation state to control the entirety of Ireland. It isn't about prioritizing your country over others, its about being organized into nation states.
A German nationalist in 1920's Austria (the majority of Austria at that time) doesn't necessarily hate other countries, he just wants his country to be organized under the German nation state.
So a Nationalist is someone who believes that society should be organized under Nation States. That for a state to be legitimate, it has to be for a nation. These people would view countries like Belgium and Switzerland as illegitimate, since these countries are not organized around a nation.
Choke on mine.
nation-states are built on language. Language is the only common identifier you need 'race' and 'identity' are made up concepts
Non-whites in France do not feel french at all, in fact they hate france like nothing else
It's come to the point where even actuel french people don't want to be french, they all invent italian or spanish origins, being only french is seen as an insult here
>People who are proud of being Brazilian are civic nationalists by definition
They are mentally ll by definition
>Language is the only common identifier
Most ridiculous statement ever. Are Irish now Anglo? And Black and White Southerners are the same, despite being two very distinct groups inhabiting the same area, or is the only thing that separates them the different dialect?
Language is no better of a way to distinguish different groups than race, religion or origins.
I thought heritagefagging was only for New Worlders
actually that's bc France had already dramatically low birthrates (as only European country) at the end of XIXth century so they started to import shittons of illiterate Italian peasants to increase their population as mean to counteract a rapidly rising Germany population then
Whole civic nationalist identity was a thing to better assimlate tchem and other European immigrants like Spaniards, us or Russians
Patriots at best, nationalism implies in a nation(i.e. ethnicity).
You see, ethnicity and nation have the exact same meaning.
Civic nationalism is a just huge american cope.
Patriotism and nationalism are the same thing.
This. Bretons, basques and corsicans aren't the same nation. France as a nation is an artificial construction.
You just the opposite thing in your two different replies
Trevor Noah is right though. The french national team is african. If you are black, you are not french even if you are wearing the french uniform.
If i piss in an empty champagne bottle, you wouldn't call it champagne even if I kept the label.
Some french guy was the french ambassador and the football player themselves were mad because they were all raised in France and born there for most of them.
Saying " Africa" won the world cup when a french team win is not a statement of empowerment it's just a provocation. Trevor didn't do anything except create more racial tensions.
Racial tensions will happen regardless. Negroids and caucasians are too different and should not be forced to live together.
I wasn't taking any sides in this, I was simply noting how the two sides of the issue result from Noah living in places where Citizenship is not connected to an ethnicity/nation while in France if you have French citizenship you are considered only French, which is your "ethnicity" and nationality, both of which are defined by your citizenship.
In USA and South Africa, the idea of ethnicity is completely disconnected from citizenship, so to Trevor saying that the players are African doesn't dispute their Frenchness since ethnicity and nationality are completely disconnected.
I wonder if Trevor Noah would be able to define "Africaness" without referring to skin color.