Is Taxation Theft?

Yes.

Yes.

>Philosophy

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based nz and chile

Yes, but it's also necessary to prevent your country from being steamrolled by countries with a extensive bureaucracy.

>i don't categorically hate all government's that exist, ever have existed and that could theoretically exist

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What the fuck are you talking about? Bureaucracy doesn't benefit anyone but the bureaucrats themselves and politicians who can build up a voting base of dependants in said bureaucracy.

Yes

no for people who accept the social contract and yes for those that reject it.
taxation should only fund vital services like firefighters,police,paramedics,army

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I don't know how it looks in your country, but in Poland bureaucracy is only slowing everything down due to it's size. Each action you want to take requires many permits, documents etc.
There is army of officials doing nothing but signing papers that are required by the system.
It's parasitic remnant from times when Poland was communist state.

Without a bureaucracy you wouldn't be able to maintain a huge army.
Now think about what happens when a country with a strong military goes to war agains't a country without any army at all.
Napoleon's army managed to conquer soo much land because the french had a very efficient logistical system

Your arguments have been outdated by a few centuries at least

Yes.

i dont understand this chart.
Income tax, I understand.
Employer tax, tax the company has to pay?
Employee tax, income tax again?

A inefficient bureaucracy is still better than no bureaucracy at all.

>t. bureaucrat

Taxation allows your business to exist. Try operating a business with no electricity and telecom network, with no roads to get employees, goods and customers to your business or without police stopping niggers from looting your warehouse.

Profit is theft though.

Social security. I doubt even in burgerland net and gross salary is the same.

it's not.
I made $100k last year, but took home $60 something after state, federal, and social security. I sure love what I'm getting for my taxes.
:^)

employee tax is tax withheld and then income tax is anything left you owe

> What really is the Social Contract? An agreement of the citizen with the government? No, that would mean but the continuation of [Rousseau's] idea. The social contract is an agreement of man with man; an agreement from which must result what we call society. In this, the notion of commutative justice, first brought forward by the primitive fact of exchange, ... is substituted for that of distributive justice ... Translating these words, contract, commutative justice, which are the language of the law, into the language of business, and you have commerce, that is to say, in its highest significance, the act by which man and man declare themselves essentially producers, and abdicate all pretension to govern each other.
—Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, General Idea of the Revolution in the Nineteenth Century (1851)

Who says anything about anarchy?
We still need, military, police, firefighters, doctors, judges, teachers and many more. But too much money goes on maintaining the system.
Even fucking church gets money from taxes.

>Even fucking church gets money from taxes.
lel

t. bureaucrat

Yea and that's on top of being exempted from paying taxes.

>you have to pay taxes because you have "agreed" that you have to pay taxes in imaginary abstract terms, also you can't take back your agreement
It sounds like Jewish magic

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> Instead of arguing for explicit consent, which can always be manufactured, Pettit argues that the absence of an effective rebellion against it is a contract's only legitimacy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract#Philip_Pettit's_Republicanism_(1997)

But there is rebellion. Or does it need to be armed? Presumably it would also have to be successful. So basically you have to pay taxes because you have to pay taxes.

>But there is rebellion
really? where?

Taxation is theft.
Right there ^^^^

Without a bureaucracy, how would you maintain all of these services?
It seems that you just need to reform your system, not throw them away

>Mexico
>Denmark

Like, wtf.

Not necessarialy armed, but you need at least protests.

No. You pay taxes to maintain order. Order being a general term for safety, freedom of commerce, and personal rights of the individual.

That's not a rebellion, but a mere catch phrase used by brainlets or anarchists who can't understand the necessity of the state, and of the social contract.

Taxes have existed since the dawn of civilization. And even the philosophers of the enlightenment, and the classical liberals, saw the necessity of taxation.

When Poland had a chance to make all the reforms after getting its independence in 1989, shit hit the fan. The only reason why we are still afloat is money from the EU. No one is willing to give up their privileges, so until the whole system collapses there is no "need" to change anything.

Like Brazil then

But as we just got a new thing to worry about and unemployment will skyrocket soon because almost all services are closed without compensation from the government. Either we will go back 10 years back in terms of economy or someone will have to pull money from magic hat. Thanks corona you were needed.

That's not rebellion that's words.

More like any 3rd world bureaucratic hellhole.

So is every penny that the government doesn't spend on those things stolen even according to social contractists?
ok, tax evasion then

Pretty much the situation in Sweden as well, the bureaucracy could be built during the post-war period when the rest of Europe was bombed to oblivion.
>Thanks corona you were needed.
Based.

>So is every penny that the government doesn't spend on those things stolen even according to social contractists?
I gave you a the short list, the most fundamental of the social justice. Once you add democracy, you through the consent of the electorate, you allow for the social contract to be expanded to cover other things. The electorate shapes the society that it wants to be.

> According to other social contract theorists, when the government fails to secure their natural rights (Locke) or satisfy the best interests of society (called the "general will" by Rousseau), citizens can withdraw their obligation to obey, or change the leadership through elections or other means including, when necessary, violence.

So, not all tax revenue will go into the police/army. Some will eventually go towards the general improvement and welfare of society. I'm also sure that regardless, you could make the argument that all actions taken by the government are intended to fulfill the contract between the people and the government.

>ok, tax evasion then
tax evasion is as much of a "rebellion" against taxes, as murder is a "rebellion" against life. That is, it's not a rebellion, and has no popular support/will.

>it's not a rebellion, and has no popular support/will.
LEGALIZE MURDER

Also, taxation can't be theft by definition.
> Liam Murphy and Thomas Nagel assert that since property rights are determined by laws and conventions, of which the state forms an integral part, taxation by the state cannot be considered theft.

>legalized murder
that's an oxymoron.

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No, it's a price for services essentially. In exchange for tax (money, cattle etc) the Government has to give me some sort of protections, if the Government can't help with protecting people in their own country than there is no reason to pay tax as they aren't fulfilling their role and my money is better going to some other power that will.

How can anyone look at this and say Capitalism works?

Almost all high social spending countries rely on having large surplus. But having a few bad years is often enough to make them scrape the bottom of the barrel. At least Sweden made some money during the war like you said.

> property rights are determined by laws and convention
What are natural rights.
>taxation can never be theft
Answered.
>tax evasion isn't rebelling against taxes
It is exactly that. You can shake your fist in the air and say "fuck taxes" while tax evading for dramatic effect, but you are rebelling against laws and imposing your own when you willfully break them.

Capitalism works really well when people act like ants.

Services provided with stolen money*

Every time a situation like this occurs I hope that it will finally cause the government to collapse. The current political system was custom made by Socialdemokraterna and is impossible to reform, it has to be destroyed completely.