Is the EU a failure?

The EU became a failure when it became a humanist dictatorship replacing the Catholic+Humanistic guiding principles that founded the EU. Basically, when German bankers got hold of the EU, they trapped the whole continent into pragmatism and bureaucracy, instead of the Renaissance feeling of the South

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This but it's the USA

Yes.

who would win?

Am*ricans and Ch*nese

No one is seething at the EU. The EU is a meme larping as a superpower when it's a very distant third wheel to America and China (I am being generous even considering that basket case a third wheel). The likes of Turkey is able to threaten it.

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both desu
feels great

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Germany if it had a military

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>America
>UK
No. they will finally stand up and unite with each other to confront you

yes

As a franco-german alliance that aims to enforce these two nations laws whims and morality throughout the whole continent it succeeded

>anglo news
They fight every 7 years over the budget. It's a nothingburger
spiegel.de/international/europe/european-parliament-rejects-budget-proposal-of-eu-leaders-a-888713.html

and this is a good thing

This

If all the entities historically known to be extremely antagonistic towards Europe, spend time and energy on criticising EU then it means it's doing something right.

It's a success at what it was designed to do, which was sneak a centralized state in the back door.
popular but retarded take. Even if the EU project was the reason france and germany didn't go to war (it was actually NATO and alignment against soviet expansion), all that would mean is that the ECSC was enough to keep the peace and the EEU and modern EU was extra legislation on top

>which was sneak a centralized state in the back door.

Shitty meme. An ever closer union culminating into a United States of Europe has always been the goal, even before its foundation.

This

EU is just the natural progression of ECSC, and it got rebranded to show the ever closer integration

The point was that economical and political integration are a new way to avoid wars, as opposed as the old one (a constant balance of military power and MAD theory)
So far it has been a success

Thats weak logic. EU can be bad for both outsiders and insiders. It can both block the interests of external entities and ruin the internal population. Right now EU is extension of Germany at the expense of everyone outside the countries Directly West to it. If you go along with that you'll tank most of the members and turn them into flyover states.

Also none of you EU enthusiasts espouse anything but naked imperialism. Do you not see yourselves or what?

Not really.
Every member of the EU benefitted from being part of he Union.

Imagine being so retarded you need an entangling political union to prevent yourselves from going to war again. Have some respect for yourselves.

>Europe before EU
>no gays, no trans

>Europe after EU
>lots of gays, lots of trans

The answer is obvious

>Imagine being so retarded you need an entangling political union to prevent yourselves from going to war again
Isn't that basically the UK?

>An ever closer union culminating into a United States of Europe has always been the goal, even before its foundation.
how is that different than what I said.It just wasn't the explicit goal
the point is you cant say that a political project was necessary to stop war when the economic project sufficed
>economic and political integration
>new
dur what is empire?

Lmao, the only European state with a Civil War outside the Balkans during the last century has the audacity to talk about stable unions and internal conflicts.

>It just wasn't the explicit goal
Are you funcionally illiterate? It was the explicit goal, open a fucking history.

>dur what is empire?
Usually an empire is a country conquering and submitting others (Roman Empire, British Empire, ...). The EEC was born from a treaty, not a war

Yes a total one

>America before EU
>no gays, no trans

>America after EU
>lots of gays, lots of trans

Holy shit

>Are you funcionally illiterate? It was the explicit goal, open a fucking history.

lol Up till 10 years ago everyone was officially bullshitting about it never going beyond a union of sovereign states and that nobody ever EVER intended it to be EUS (even though everyone who looked beyond mass media found out otherwise pretty quickly). Go do your homework, kevin, you can learn your abcs during the pandemic.

Are you equating colonialism to war among equals in the continent? The UK has always been the arbiter among you and foiling your pan-Europeanism attempts. Continentals have come up with ideologies reducing the continent to the shitter.

>Krautroachistan has the audacity to talk about stable unions and internal conflicts.
Even after the war when you bend over backwards, you still manage to ruin the continent which your abhorrent politics.

No it's fine everything will be fine when they stop importing refugees

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EU single market is really based. Too bad many zoomers on here take it for granted

>Are you equating colonialism to war among equals in the continent?
No
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_in_Great_Britain

you guys are already rewriting your history?
the goal of the ECSC was, and I'm quoting the Schengen Declaration, "the pooling of coal and steele production should immediately provide for the setting up of common foundations for economic development as a first step in a federation of Europe."
do you know what a federation is? If Michelet was actually honest about what he wanted, no one would have joined, and would have voted against each new integration, like they have done repeatedly

I have done my homework, Pavel, care to correct them?

>In November 1981, the German and Italian Governments submitted to the Member States a draft European Act designed to further European integration. In accordance with the mandate given by the European Council of 26 and 27 November 1981 the Foreign Ministers reported to the Stuttgart European Council on their work on this draft Act.

>The Heads of State or Government of the Member States of the European Communities meeting within the European Council resolved to continue the work begun on the basis of the Treaties of Paris and Rome and to create a united Europe, which is more than ever necessary in order to meet the dangers of the world situation, capable of assuming the responsibilities incumbent on it by virtue of its political role, its economic potential and its manifold links with other peoples, ...

>The Heads of State or Government, on the basis of an awareness of a common destiny and the wish to affirm the European identity, confirm their commitment to progress towards an ever closer union among the peoples and Member States of the European Community.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemn_Declaration_on_European_Union

And you independence lovers always tend to forget that the era of small nations is long gone. If Poland and by extension even smaller, joke countries like Slovakia, ceases to be part of the EU imperial machine (which is quite mild in treatment of its members), it will find itself under the boot of some other superpower, the closest one looming over us being Russia. Unless we lick American cock harder and beg them for protection twice as much as we do now, which makes us their bottom bitch.

Choose your daddy.

Yeah. Usually. Which only makes EU an unusual empire, at least at it's inception. Made out of ruling and finance class wet dreams and ushered through the media class that is owned by the former.

A classist empire where the subjugated are the elecotrate.

>lol Up till 10 years ago everyone was officially bullshitting about it never going beyond a union of sovereign states and that nobody ever EVER intended it to be EUS

The absolute state of the Polish education system. Are you guys even aware of the fact that in the 70s there were two competing West European trade blocs with competing visions? Are you familiar with the terms 'inner six' and 'outer seven'? In short there were two trade associations one called the EFTA and the other one called the EEC. The former favored a loose associating of states with a common market while the latter preferred political integratio. The latter won out and absorbed most members of the former and now here we are. I can't believe this shit doesn't get taught in other countries.

>The goal of the ESCS was
>ESCS
user I... You could have at least looked up the goals of the EEC. The ESCS is nowhere near what the EU is today

So it was an explicit goal?

Yes

>Penal sanctions

Posted by a circumcised man.

>UK giving ANY country shit for its "racial purity"

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no

thank you, that's my entire point. the meme about the EU preventing war is retarded because the ECSC was enough to prevent it in the first place.
a european federation? obviously. A single state? obviously not

The EU isn't even a federation, it's a pretty long way from being a single state (if that's even possible)

What is it that you're talking about? It's ruled by representatives either of the countries themselves or their representatives elected proportionally from member states. It's as democratic as its members.
Though, seeing as you speak of "classism" and the upper class oppressing the poor proletariat, you'd probably say the same about the member states as well, in which case the EU is not where the blame lies

A federation is a single country. No one's talking of making the EU a unitary republic

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It's a failure because it became too political. EU is the reason for mass immigration from Africa. Also it is a failure because poor and badly run countries became part of it, especially Greece and former dictatorships like Spain.

It was never a good idea to begin with

You are confusing or purposelyoobfuscating the short-term term implementation with the long-term goals. Just because there was a long-term progression and evolution doesn't mean that the goal of political integration hasn't been present from the beginning. To quote Winston Churchill in

>Yet all the while there is a remedy which, if it were generally and spontaneously adopted by the great majority of people in many lands, would as by a miracle transform the whole scene and would in a few years make all Europe, or the greater part of it, as free and happy as
Switzerland is today. What is this sovereign remedy? It is to recreate the European fabric, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, safety and freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living. The process is simple. All that is needed is the resolve of hundreds of millions of men and women to do right instead of wrong and to gain as their reward blessing instead of cursing. Much work has been done upon this task by the exertions of the Pan-European Union, which owes so much to the famous French patriot and statesman Aristide Briand.

>no internal borders
>centralized lawmaking that supercedes local law
>a (non-democratically established) constitution via Lisbon Treaty
>gaiz lets have an army ;^)
>a single currency
>national anthem flag to replace country flags
yeah sure doesnt sound like a single state
wrong and wrong, but thanks for trying

Yes, Russian rape baby. There is no denying Western and Northern Europe are more socially and culturally cucked than the UK. They're the type of people to vote in those who enable grooming gangs just like how Germany reelected Architect of the Migrant Crisis (I wouldn't be surprised if that shit takes place there but governments are simply suppressing it anyway) and pro-EU sentiment is stronger there than here. America isn't as "racially pure" as Sweden but unless you're an intellectually dishonest retard (which a lot of Yuros are), it's obvious which is more cucked.

O B S E S S E D

>do you know what a federation is?
Yes. I federation is a sovereign state whose sovereignty is shared between a federal government and subnational entities. I know that because I currently live in a federation.

watching EU parliament proceedings is funny, so bureaucratic

>yeah sure doesnt sound like a single state
Sounds like a federation. The US have all of that

I literally never argued that the goal of political integration wasnt there from the beginning. I'm arguing that they had to be sneaky about it because no one except for France and Germany wanted full integration

The EU's main job is to organize the ESC. In this regard it has failed.

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A federation is a single state dumbass.

>thank you, that's my entire point. the meme about the EU preventing war is retarded because the ECSC was enough to prevent it in the first place.
Sorry only started reading halfway through the thread

>they had to be sneaky about it
It's literally written in all the major treaties signed by all the members

good answer

How do they differ from the US House of Representatives? Apart from the translation part of course

No. If you mean how this pandemic is not controlled by EU, it's because countries didn't want to make rules for pandemic situation before that EU could help for example in this pandemic.

The reason for mass immigration from Africa is Africa being a shithole. People were flooding into Europe even before schengen.
And do you think said mismanaged countries like Spain, Italy and Greece could do a better job of protecting their borders than with all of Europe backing it up?
Who's to say European countries wouldn't still be liberal as hell without the EU?

They were so sneaky about it that the preamble of the German post-war constitution literally sets out European unification as the raison d'état of the modern German republic. Good thing no one actually reads constitutional texts out of civics class.