Do you think that we will ever have equality?

what's that bs

if you were a mexi"chad", you wouldn't be posting under a us flag

equality=/=being identical

In the grave.

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How about the fact that equality doesn't exist and never existed because our reality is one of "different cultures, languages, cuisine, music, clothing, art, ideologies, mindsets..."

Can you back your bullshit pipe dream up?

as much as i hate agreeing with a krautnigger, for a given definition or version of 'equality', if its enforced it removes some level of diversity and or freedom in a population.
ex: wealth
no more poor people, no more rich people. All middle class. Less diversity, and no opportunity for economic advancement in society.

diversity is a good thing as long as its not enforced and not all mixed together like a soup or modern art

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It's common sense. Every human is different. Everyone has made different experiences and has a different perception, different needs, etc.
Who would even decide what the status of "equality" is? Everyone has another definition of equality. There is no way that all humans would agree. People are too different to do so.

Look at what communism did/does to the people. The idea of equality works in theory only, but will never work in reality. And that's okay.

equality
>the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.
>status
>rights
>opportunities
nothing is cultural, music, languages, cuisine, clothing, art, ideologies, mindsets, etc. Unironically that swiss user is right. equality doesn't mean being perfectly identical to one another. It's more used in terms of law.

tell me how a native that lives in the jungle only speaks his tribe's language and doesn't even know how to count can have the same status and opportunities as the Swiss user you quoted without losing the culture and way of living that trapped him in that jungle in the first place?

You just answered your question in your post. The native would have the same opportunities as anyone else if they want to achieve more. If they're fine being tribal they can. Equality comes from the opportunity of doing more if you wish. There are native americans for example who go to college but still have their cultural roots like everyone else. If the native lived in America they should have the same rights, status, etc as some bostonian, dakotan, floridian, etc etc. Nothing is holding them back at that point legally except themselves.

And who decides which rights every human should be granted?
Do you think a murderer should have the same rights as an innocent person?

Go and tell those muslim countries for example that you want your definition of rights to be enforced there, as the USA likes to do. Dictate them that women should have the same rights as men. They don't want this. You can't change their culture and ideology. They have another mindset, another view. Every try to influence them in the way you want it forms terrorists. How would Arabs, Jews, Europeans, East-Asians, etc. ever agree to the same conditions world wide? This is not possible. They are simply different.

The nations and the people of those nations decide which rights are granted to anyone. You can't dictate it. You would have to erase all nations and borders. This attempt would fuck shit up even harder.

The idea of world wide equality sounds nice, but is probably the most dangerous idea ever.

>And who decides which rights every human should be granted?
I mean, that's done by a piece of paper every country has, no? Unless we had a 1 world government that decides ever human right. I think you're arguing more for what human rights are than who grants them.
>Do you think a murderer should have the same rights as an innocent person?
In the law, dependent on the country. I'm not a lawyer but I imagine if murderers didn't have any rights, they would be killed daily by our institutions (prisons).
>Go and tell those muslim countries for example that you want your definition of rights to be enforced there, as the USA likes to do.
I don't want my rights forced there though.
>They are simply different.
Only because a book tells them to be different.
>The nations and the people of those nations decide which rights are granted to anyone. You can't dictate it.
Yes? What point are you arguing? At some time in the future Earth will have to come together if we wish to ever leave it. Not within the next 100 years or 500 years probably. But in the far future. There will still be laws, governments, rights, etc.
>You would have to erase all nations and borders.
Not necessarily. You can still have borders and charter human rights. Look at any country in Europe. France and Germany have borders but they both recognize certain human rights that transcend borders despite major cultural, language etc barriers.
>The idea of world wide equality sounds nice, but is probably the most dangerous idea ever.
As opposed to..?

no because there will always be ugly people.

>all these retards getting angry at this 500 iq german poster for being correct
tell me how you can have equality when everything is different
go on, tell me

i'll wait

...

I wanted to express that their (rightful) unwillingness to change (that exist because they are free to do so, as you can't imprison someones will) fails the idea of having equal opportunities and maintaining their mindsets, ideologies and culture. Their supposed equality will never manifest itself over it's potential ideal form until they decide that their want to be equal and abandon their culture. You can't force me to be equal and you can't have your equality without forcing me to accept it. While there is free will you can't make everyone be equal.

literally not an argument

>At some time in the future Earth will have to come together if we wish to ever leave it.
but we've already gotten off planet
and thanks to elongated muskrat's autism, literal mountains of gold in asteroids, and .gov support it wont be too long until we get significant amounts of people off earth permanently
>as opposed to...?
the way it works now, duh

this user is right. Equality of opportunity is the only kind of equality that, when enforced, doesn't lead to a horrifying dystopia.

>I wanted to express that their (rightful) unwillingness to change (that exist because they are free to do so, as you can't imprison someones will) fails the idea of having equal opportunities and maintaining their mindsets, ideologies and culture.
Unwillingness doesn't negate opportunity. You didn't read my last sentence "Nothing is holding them back at that point legally except themselves."
>You can't force me to be equal
Lol nobody is forcing you. That specific wording has been used to justify segregation and white supremacy ideals.
>you can't have your equality without forcing me to accept it.
Yes you can. The KKK still exists for example. Well then you would say "they accepted it". A lot of them still don't.
>While there is free will you can't make everyone be equal.
Very poetic and philosophical. This idea of equality is a work in progress but it has helped shape nations since the 1800s. Everything you're arguing against is literally regressive tier logic. No offense.

ye I got that from your post.

if it is different, it can be separated. if it can be separated, it can be graded.

>ye I got that from your post.

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I meant being a multi-planetary civilization. Maybe in the far, far future a galactic one. That can't be achieved if only the US was parading the stars with its ships.
>the way it works now, duh
We have equality now in many ways, duh. With progress making steps everyday, duh. That would be never progressing and staying stagnic, which just doesn't happen sorry to tell you.

@120401988
>resorts to meme pictures
yikes that didn't take long.

what kind of equality do i share with both an aboriginal and donald trump? what do me, an aboriginal, and donald trump have in common?

>I mean, that's done by a piece of paper every country has, no?
Yes, and it's different from country to country.

>if murderers didn't have any rights, they would be killed daily by our institutions (prisons)
I am not talking about not having any rights. I am talking about the "same rights".

>I don't want my rights forced there though.
So, and how to achieve world wide equality then?

>Only because a book tells them to be different.
This is a fedora fairy tale. It doesn't depend on the religion only. Also culture, language, region, law system and much more. Ancient tribes like everywhere on the world fought each other despite believing in the same gods for example. France and Germany fought against each other despite both being Christian countries. And anyway, let them believe in their books. Who are you to declare their book and beliefs as waste? Let them have their book as long as it matters in their own country.

>At some time in the future Earth will have to come together if we wish to ever leave it. Not within the next 100 years or 500 years probably. But in the far future. There will still be laws, governments, rights, etc.
People can't just discard their experiences, language, culture, views like an old pair of shoes. Don't you understand it? Even on mars the people will be different. That's the nature of humanity.

>France and Germany have borders but they both recognize certain human rights
So what? This is not the case for every region on earth. There are people who don't accept the human's right because they have another definition of it. And just because a government accepts a charter of human rights doesn't mean that everyone in this country accepts it. What do you think how terrorism comes up?
Anyway, every culture is another product of a historical development of thousands of years. You can't make them all the same.

>As opposed to..?
As opposed to accept that not everyone is the same and not everyone can be treated equally.

dis nigga got no legs lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Not likely. I feel like capital has already won.
Maybe if the next crisis hits super hard, there might be another revolution. But people are so alienated, so cucked, that unless it is something that kills hundreds of millions of people nothing will change.

Corona will do

>what kind of equality do i share with both an aboriginal and donald trump?
Are you saying you aren't equal to Trump just because he's rich? Or an abo because they look different?
>So, and how to achieve world wide equality then?
If I knew how, I would be shitposting on this site right now. Not even the best politicians know the answer. Ideally, hypothetically, it would be something like the UN being the government of Earth with each country acting like a member like it does now. Where the UN lays down basic laws everyone should follow. And countries today would act more like states. This won't happen in our lifetime so don't reply saying "this won't happen". I can see this happening in the far future. If we ever last that long.
> Also culture, language, region, law system and much more.
Much of that is shaped on their religion. Sorry to say.
>Ancient tribes like everywhere on the world fought each other despite believing in the same gods for example.
Ok? I don't think that is relevant to my posts though.
>And anyway, let them believe in their books.
They can believe in their books I'm not advocating taking them away lmao.
>Who are you to declare their book and beliefs as waste? Let them have their book as long as it matters in their own country.
Where did I say that? It only becomes a problem when you force that religion onto others who don't believe in it.
>People can't just discard their experiences, language, culture, views like an old pair of shoes. Don't you understand it? Even on mars the people will be different. That's the nature of humanity.
Don't you understand it? You're making it seem like I'm the one advocating for everyone to be gray blobs and identical which was never in my original post. That is what YOU were advocating if you decide to pursue equality (which isn't true otherwise blacks in america for example would be virtually the same as whites)

I take no offense, I am mostly playing devils advocate. I don't actually believe what I am saying or have deep attachments with any of these ideas.

>no more poor people, no more rich people. All middle class.
how about no class at all?
>Less diversity
having dominant and dominated classes is not diversity
>no opportunity for economic advancement in society
what did you mean by this? if there's any need for advancement, there will be advancement
all humans have the same material needs.the difference is the way and how many of these needs is fulfilled for every individual. things like culture, ideas, and religion are second to material conditions in moving humanity foward
>Look at what communism did/does to the people.
tell me, what did/does communism did/do to people?

oops replied to wrong user in the beginning who cares. writing a fucking novel over here.

>Anyway, every culture is another product of a historical development of thousands of years. You can't make them all the same.
Why would I want them the same? Originally I was talking about laws and equality of opportunity. Stop equating it to everyone being identical.
>As opposed to accept that not everyone is the same and not everyone can be treated equally.
I'm pretty sure that justifies racism and xenophobia, but ok lmaoooo

Ah ok. I understand. I didn't think you did but sometimes you never know on this site.

>equality

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that's a strawman and you know it.
I will (probably)never have the influence or power of donald trump and the abo will never have the opportunities of either of us. And you didn't tell me what we have in common(with the single exception that we're all human beings).

>no class at all
you meant to say 'all middle class'
>having dominated and dominant classes is not diversity
it is by definition diversity.
and i meant individual economic advancement. If a person works harder and is more productive than another person, the first person deserves to be better off in life. if he isn't, he is de-incentivized from being more productive and society loses that productivity.

what about all the people in the bleachers? or the guys playing ball?

global gene editing biotech
then maybe

>that's a strawman and you know it.
I don't know it because that is what you're saying is it not?
>I will (probably) never have the influence or power of donald trump and the abo will never have the opportunities of either of us.
Ok firstly, the abo doesn't have the same opportunities as us because we're Americans. Secondly, You don't have influence and power like Trump because he was born incredible lucky financially. Ideally that wouldn't happen but it did. I'm not content with how the world is now.
>And you didn't tell me what we have in common(with the single exception that we're all human beings).
You have the same rights as Trump does under US law and constitution. Now with Trump because of his privileges he is more likely to get away with things you wouldn't. I don't like this and neither do you but it's the way it is now. I'm not advocating for now. Wit the abo it's harder because they're australian. And I don't know Aussie laws. Yes you're both human beings etc etc. And probably under international law, you can't just go over there and kill a bunch of them and they can't do that to you.

>Are you saying you aren't equal to Trump just because he's rich? Or an abo because they look different?
Yes, but not because he is rich. And I am not equal to you or to anyone else. The worth of a human life is equal, but humans in general are not equal.

>If I knew how, I would be shitposting on this site right now. Not even the best politicians know the answer
You achieve world wide equality be enforcing it. No country and no culture will do it by theirselves at once. Because they want to keep their sovereignty.

>Much of that is shaped on their religion
>Ok? I don't think that is relevant to my posts though.
I've just said that cultures fought each other despite having the same religion or even the same language.
Religion can shape the mentality of a historically grown people, yes. So what? Is it a question of where the influence comes from now? A culture of atheists would have other influences maybe. Maybe not from religious book, but something else which shaped them. What is your point? That religions are "evil"? What does it matter to you that a another culture is shaped by their religion?

>everyone to be gray blobs and identical which was never in my original post
I know. But the idea of equality would have the requirements or consequences of everyone being identitcal. This is long-winded thinking.

No. There will be always people who feel disadvantaged and underprivileged.
Imagine you worked all your life and you get monthly pension money. Because you've earned it. There is someone who has never worked in his life. He wants the get the same money. Should he have the "right" to receive the same pension money as you do? No, of course not. Because he hasn't earned it.
Your great-great-grandpa built a house. A foreigner migrates to your country and has no place to sleep. Should he get a house too?

>tell me, what did/does communism did/do to people?
Look at North Korea. People brought into line to make them equal. If you stand out of the line, you get in big trouble because you are not "equal" enough. Imagine this situation world wide. Communism is basically the idea of making the people equal - and it always turned out to be a horrible idea.

this

>Originally I was talking about laws and equality of opportunity
Other cultures - other laws.

>I'm pretty sure that justifies racism and xenophobia, but ok lmaoooo
You are fantasising. People don't want to be equal.

>Yes, but not because he is rich. And I am not equal to you or to anyone else. The worth of a human life is equal, but humans in general are not equal.
Oh jesus. Well that was meant for the other user sorry. But ty for answering.
>but humans in general are not equal.
I fundamentally disagree and that is such a slippery slope and I rather not write a novel about it.
>You achieve world wide equality be enforcing it. No country and no culture will do it by their selves at once. Because they want to keep their sovereignty.
So nothing of what I said would change. If it was enforced it would have to be agreed upon. Then you would say "it never will". I disagree otherwise humans wouldn't treat others like humans but rather subhumans. Something that happens and is prevalent in the 20th century. Like I said, this ideally would change hundreds, and if at most, thousands of years from now.
>I've just said that cultures fought each other despite having the same religion or even the same language.
Ok. I never said same cultures didn't kill each other though? I was merely pointing out that different cultures can accomplish things together despite their differences in cultures and language. I don't know where you are bringing this weird narrative from?
>What does it matter to you that a another culture is shaped by their religion?
It doesn't?
>I know. But the idea of equality would have the requirements or consequences of everyone being identical. This is long-winded thinking.
That's where we disagree but I don't think equality=identical. Which was my major point. If it did, many people in multicultural nations would all be one blob.

>Other cultures - other laws.
Yes but fundamentally not so. Japan and Western nations have different laws but fundamentally they're not so radically different. "don't kill, don't steal" etc etc.
>You are fantasizing. People don't want to be equal.
A lot of people do. Especially those who aren't equal right now. You don't notice because you're probably at the top already.

>you meant to say 'all middle class
i didn't
>If a person works harder and is more productive than another person, the first person deserves to be better off in life. if he isn't, he is de-incentivized from being more productive and society loses that productivity.
except in the real world people who actually work hard stay in the bottom while a parasitic elite lives the better life. in this society hard work does not guarantee success. exploitation does.
see above. what you said is exactly what happens in our society
and the duty of all states is to bring people into line. the only difference is that communist states do not allow exploitation of others. no "freedom" to steal, to exploit or to enslave others.

>I disagree otherwise humans wouldn't treat others like humans but rather subhumans.
Of course you can treat people respectable in a socially way. But this doesn't change the fact that Arabs don't want the same laws as Americans. Or that Poland doesn't want the same laws as Germany. Let them all have their own laws whether you like it or not.

>I don't know where you are bringing this weird narrative from?
Because you mentioned something like "they are just different because their book tells them to be". It's not about a book. Just like I've said. It's the nature of humans to be different.

>If it did, many people in multicultural nations would all be one blob.
And they aren't because the project of multiculturalism isn't working. Ethnical and cultural conflicts emerge. This is not a big surprise. Put a lot of different cultures into one cage and tell them that they all have to agree to one legal code and get along with eachother. They will fight against each other of course. You are proving my point.

No, even if you reset society. Hierarchy would reestablish itself within a few generations. Bureaucracy is necessarily centralizing and those at the top will seek to accumulate power and will surround themselves with their peers, becoming the new leadership class. On the private sector, a few brilliant and conservatively minded individuals will build wealthy families, then use their new acquired advantages to further their lead against the masses in each successive generation, recreating old money families. On a foreign policy level, equality definitely doesn't apply in a field where one of its most basic tenets is to put the needs of your own nation before that of everyone else.

>the duty of all states is to bring people into line
Not in a political sense, but in a social sense.

>have the same rights as Trump
Except i don't. Trump has specific rights given to him because he is president, like the right to pardon. And hes a new yorker while i am florida man, i can own an ar-15 while he cannot.
either way my point was that there is no real equality in the world but that isn't really a bad thing. Do you think the abbo is unhappy because he isn't american and doesn't have the exact same rights as me? do you think i am unhappy because i'm not trump? I was born wealthier than he was but i still will never have the influence he does because i spend all my time reading, playing vidya and shitposting. Because that's what makes me happy.
happiness can be obtained independently of wealth or status and that is what truly matters in this world. enforced equality would just be another obstacle to happiness, and incidental equality of all people on earth is impossible.

are you equal to a person born without arms/legs/sight? no. you and that person will never have equal opportunities in this world.

muh ancestors were dead fucking broke a few separate times in american history and yet my family is very wealthy because of their hard work.
and many of the people i went to school with worked hard and have already made a decent life for themselves.
idk tho, maybe shit is different in brazil

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This is the fault of industrial society. This black man would be picking berries and smearing himself in cow shit happy in his village in Africa if it wasn't for it.

>But this doesn't change the fact that Arabs don't want the same laws as Americans.
Right now they don't. Because religion highly dictates their society. Religion dictates ours too as much I would like it not to do that. Again, I'm not saying Arab nations needs to switch to American ideals and values now. At one point Europe is predominantly Catholic, followed the popes decrees to go slaughter infidels in Jerusalem. Now you guys don't give a shit. I would like to think that would happen to in the far future in ME nations. With the rapid advancement of technology and information sharing this might happen sooner than it took Europe.
>Or that Poland doesn't want the same laws as Germany. Let them all have their own laws whether you like it or not.
They can all have their own laws, There would just be basic ones that everyone abides to. see first reply on this post >Because you mentioned something like "they are just different because their book tells them to be". It's not about a book. Just like I've said. It's the nature of humans to be different.
So you're saying the fact they're born in town in the middle of desert than makes them so radically different than you? and it's not the way they were raised which was probably done by teaching from a book? come on now..dude...
>And they aren't because the project of multiculturalism isn't working.
lol
>Put a lot of different cultures into one cage and tell them that they all have to agree to one legal code and get along with each other.
Yeah Westerners are rising up in Asia. And Latinos are rising up in the US right now as we speak.
>They will fight against each other of course. You are proving my point.
Literally how? lol

Excuse me, guys. I have to go sleep. It's 6:20 am here.
It was nice to discuss with you. Think about what I've said before the discussion become too explicitly.
The nations, cultures and people of the world should and will retain their sovereignty and their nature. Every try to abolish this for a "greater cause" will throw oil into the fire and gets us even deeper into the shit.

Cosmopolitism was a mistake.

>are you saying the environment a person grows up in can change their outlook on life? come on dude...

>Except i don't.
You do.
>Trump has specific rights given to him because he is president, like the right to pardon.
Oh you mean that. Well of course, he's president and he has a job that grants him privileges. Those aren't rights endowed by him just because he's Trump. It's because he's president. And anyone who becomes president has that opportunity. Same way Trump can't waltze into your job and do the "rights" that you have whatever they may be. Also these aren't the rights i'm talking about lmao.
>And hes a new yorker while i am florida man, i can own an ar-15 while he cannot.
He could buy a home in florida and own a gun there. if he wanted to no?
>either way my point was that there is no real equality in the world but that isn't really a bad thing.
What's your definition? Also in 2020, you aren't going to have the same rights as a sudanese person no shit. I never argued that.
>Do you think the abbo is unhappy because he isn't american and doesn't have the exact same rights as me?
Wtf is this pivot
>do you think i am unhappy because i'm not trump?
again wtf is this pivot
> I was born wealthier than he was but i still will never have the influence he does because i spend all my time reading, playing vidya and shitposting. Because that's what makes me happy.
What? You were born wealthier than Trump? Or is this a semantics argument? if you're happy doing your shit now, then great? When was I arguing for happiness? You can be equal and unhappy. It happens.
> enforced equality would just be another obstacle to happiness, and incidental equality of all people on earth is impossible.
I don't agree and I don't think you've been reading my posts or skipping them and that's ok.
>are you equal to a person born without arms/legs/sight? no. you and that person will never have equal opportunities in this world.
In the law, yes. We are. In opportunities it's possible. Will it be harder? Yes. Will some jobs decline them? Yes.