When Marvel Died

Just thinking about it, and I think this was the turning point when Marvel went to shit.

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That's not Heroes Reborn

It was way before that that was just the peak of Bendis era it all started in Avengers disassembled

Early 90s.

I don't think I even own a comic books from that long ago. I think earliest comic book is Deadpool Kill and some aliens make them selves look like other people. I think it was a big Invasion event.

If the 00's and 10's Marvel Comics never happened, then I would agree with you

90s was one of the worst ages for comics. Particularly after some of the great marvel titles in the late 70s and 80s. It died in the 90s. The 00s and the 10s are just a rotten carcass.

>When Marvel Died
The year they sacked Shooter.

I thought Siege was when they finally started turning around from being shit, but maybe that's just because the whole Superhuman Registration Act thing was finally dropped after it.

Marvel was good until 2012 with Ultron again.

Fear Itself was shit, but Marvel was still itself, after Ultron everything change for bad

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It was a false promise that led to all new new different marvel a few years later

Pretty much this, even Bendis Avengers run is more Marvel than anything now.

No because even in the 90's they still put some kind of effort in character consistency from time to time. I can't even say that about the 10's.

>someone who didn't read 90s comics
Bro. The overcommercialisation of Marvel. The silly gimmicks (trading cards! foil covers! holograms!) The bad art. The bad attempt at a reboot. The 90s extreme.

Actually go back and read some of those comics.

He’s right theirs a reason they had to basically start over with Heroes Return they knew they screwed up royally.

On average, the books in the 10's were better than the books in the 90's. The 10's had some of the lower points, but it also had much higher points too.

>very best era of x-men is the worst age of comics
???

>very best era of x-men
80s X-Men is FAR better than 90s X-Men. Don't let your extreme nostalgia blind you, user.

Yeah, I read them recently. A lot of them actually had more consistent characterization compared to modern books. Its only crime is being a massive quality drop compared to the 60's to the 80's.

Even as terrible as 90's X-Men got, 2010's X-Men up until Hickman came on board was even worse. At worst, 90's X-Men dragged stupid things out like Wolverine not getting his adamantium back or things like that. Most 2010's X-Men is even more directionless and vapid compared to an era where people wanted to imitate Liefeld and Jim Lee. That's a feat. Hell, even 90's Marvel at its most creatively bankrupt would've figured out no one was taking to the "Cyclops is Mutant Hitler" idea and resolved it in maybe two years at most.

>The overcommercialisation of Marvel. The silly gimmicks (trading cards! foil covers! holograms!) The bad art. The bad attempt at a reboot. The 90s extreme.

Gimmicks and 90's extreme lasted for maybe three or four years at most. Maybe longer if you read X-Men or Heroes Reborn or something, but by that point it was no longer linewide.

Probably Civil War?
Or maybe that time in the late 90s when Franklin Richard recreated everyone in a pocket universe.

The 00s and 10s before Bendis came on board were pretty good for the X-men. Morrison, Whedon, the Messiah Trilogy, Uncanny X-Force, PAD's X-Factor, etc. HoM was a stupid idea but the stuff that came immediately after it wasn't awful. The 90s are only a commercial peak for the X-men, nothing more.

age of apocalypse. thats all i have to say

Yeah, Astonishing, Gillen, the main Cyclops-led run from Morrison to pre Bendis was great, imo.

Not that great. And I'd unironically put everything I listed above it. Maybe not PAD's X-Factor run which lasted a bit too long.

The drop in quality from the 80s to the 90s was huge. Combined with the fact Marvel essentially went bankrupt in the 90s. The OP argued when did Marvel die. You seem to think I am defending the 2010s etc. Of course there are terrible comics then. But the 90s is where it really died. And you keep talking about characterisation as if the 90s didn't have an actual reboot.

The problem is a lot of people have nostalgia for the 90s. But take X-Men. A lot of recycled ideas plus the new extreme stuff. All the growth in characters like Magneto were taken back to square one. The problem with 90s comics is they ignored practically all the continuity in a lot of comics before then. People like Jim Lee said as much.

And?

I'd say it's a mix. Its highs were way better than the 90's (and Morrison's X-Men was better than late 90's X-Men) but the lows were as bad while I also felt like a lot of stuff after HoM was kinda mediocre.

>not that great
i bet you hate fantomex too

...I just listed the run he first appeared in as better than AoA. Not even seeing the connection.

Marvel died in the 90s, it’s better, sexier twin brother replaced it in the 2000s, then the original marvel awoke from its coma in the 2010s and broke the twins legs. Now he rolls around in a wheelchair while OG marvel dances around and says look I’m better than you I can still walk and I have an ironic hipster mustache. Wheelchair marvel is still a cool dude though. It’s an over extended metaphor but it’s also %100 true

I think this nails it, Marvel died in the mid ninties. Then rose from the grave, in the early 2000s and it seemed like a miracle, but by 2011-2012 you could tell, they came back wrong.

>but by 2011-2012
Bit too late, don't you think?

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I liked Dark Reign and Avengers Academy.