Even if Norman got a "clean bill of health" for the "Carnage business"...

We can't have new characters because the writers are shit and old legacy characters can't die or be destroyed so they can't impact the plot so you're stuck with them. Try reading other comics.

Does Spider-Man know about this?

Capeshit writers are terrible, neverending comicbooks are a cancer

>Those damn muties made me do it. Emma Frost was butthurt about the whole Utopia thing.

Osborn is one of the few villains that genuinely terrify me. He doesn't give a flying fuck about world domination, he wants to torture you. He wants to drive you to absolute insanity via any means possible whether that be chemical injections or psycological manipulion or good old fashioned blackmail.

Norman will infiltrate your life via your personal and work life. He will identify who you care for, and strip them from you as if one was tearing wings off a fly. To list just a few of the terrible things Norman has done, he has...
1. Kidnapped, tortured, and murdered a fair number of people.
2. Gave someone AIDS
3. Fucked the girlfriends of his son (Harry) and son surrogate (Peter).
4. Force fed a drunk alcohol, forced him into a truck, and drive it into a school causing brain damage.
5. Go on live television in full on goblin gear and say Spidey was at fault for Gwen Stacy.
6. Threaten to kill his own grandson to get Peter to up his game.

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Just do what I do, accept the Earth-616 human standard of morality is so fucking bankrupt that nobody actually cares about Osborne and Fisk getting scott free out of jail other than the supers whose job is to fight them

He was interesting back in the 60s when he was legit mentally ill. The modern super genius manipulator Lex Luthor type shit is incredibly intrue to the character.

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user, the average spidey villian has done as bad if not worse shit, and manage to be more entertaining, powerful, and useful as villains outside of spiderman.

Shit if the sinister six decided to fight oldschool avengers they'd slap their shit.
Dock Oc is on IM's tier in terms of tech and radiation
Absorbing man alone is able to tank both thor and hulk
Sandman can nuke most of the b and c tier villlains
Electro alone is a world class threat. WORLD CLASS THREAT.

And spidey fights all of them.
Then there's fucking Norman Osborn.
The fuck does he bring to the table outside of shitty storylines that are constantly gone back to because imbeciles who never read spiderman thin he's cool or that people who do read spidermna likes him as a villain.

>power level shittery
Ok, first of all, villains like Sandman and Electro are just goons out for a money bags, they might have really big powers, but they don't have the brains nor the evilness to do anything big with them, which is why they generally don't, they're just out to get money illegally and use their powers to do that.

And as for Norman, he's as strong and tough and fast as Spider-Man is physically and has a healing factor, what else does he need? Spider-Man has web spinners, he has a glider and bombs. They're basically just an even match, so if Spider-Man can take out those guys you bet Norman could do, and the funny thing is Norman wouldn't even do it on the battlefield.

The dude stalks you. He puts on the goblin duds and does nothing but follow you around. He becomes a constant factor in your life. He infects it like a virus on every conceivable level. What makes Osborn scary isn't that he's powerful, it's because he's not a "One and Done" villain, where you can have one regular brawl and the villain is then dealt with for a couple months. Just because you beat the shit out of Osborn doesn't mean you've beat him. He's more than comfortable operating in the shadows as well as acting on the front lines. He's a manipulative charmer capable of weaponizing any and everyone stupid enough to engage him.

Again, Osborn isn't scary because he's powerful. He's scary because of how personal he makes it. Maybe it's because i've had a stalker before, but knowing that at any given moment someone could be actively following you with questionable intentions is unnerving. They know you. They know your likes, dislikes, friends, family, and YOUR SCHEDULE! They will appear anywhere and everywhere and that is preciesly what makes Osborn (not just the Gobin) on a completely different level.

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Come to that, I don't like the Lex Luthorification of Lex Luthor. Like, maybe it was a cool idea once or twice but the way all the big "tycoon" characters end up the same way is real lazy writing.

>Maybe it's because i've had a stalker before, but knowing that at any given moment someone could be actively following you with questionable intentions is unnerving. They know you. They know your likes, dislikes, friends, family, and YOUR SCHEDULE! They will appear anywhere and everywhere and that is preciesly what makes Osborn (not just the Gobin) on a completely different level.

I just want to say, since we're on the topic of Spidey villains, this is exactly what made Venom such a big threat to Peter, aside from the fact that he could beat his ass. The thing with Venom though is readers all just thought he was really cool so it's hard to find him scary, but he was terrifying to Peter Parker.

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>this is exactly what made Venom such a big threat to Peter
You are so fucking right, and it's for that reason why Venom is another villain that makes it into the category of genuinely terrifying. The third episode of the alien costume storyline delivered a Venom experience that even kid me had trouble adjusting too. And the fact they did this entire episode WITHOUT HAVING PETER THROW A SINGLE PUNCH is a testament to this shows quality writing.
youtube.com/watch?v=17UoIKx8rp4

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Spider-Man TAS overall was pretty good, not on the level of Batman TAS but it could have been potentially

Dark Reign is easily one of my favorite (if not THE favorite) eras of the Marvel Universe.

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This is Marvel. Since civil war, there is no sense of accountability due of hack writers

Stormin Norman atoned for his crimes, saved the world from a Skrull invasion, and single handedly saved the president of the united states from the Green Goblin and rampaging Doc Samson. Norman truly is the people's hero.

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i mean marvel citizens are pretty realistic in that sense. people will vote for anyone who says things they like instead of their actual history.

RAPE!!!!

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That just sounds fucking stupid.

Meh.

>Dock Oc is on IM's tier in terms of tech and radiation
He honestly isn't. Anyone that tells you otherwise are fools.

>Absorbing man alone is able to tank both thor and hulk
He seriously can't. We already have a few canon instances of what happens to Absorbing Man the moment Thor and Hulk decides to stop playing around with him and just end the fight.

As I've said in the past, my favorite thing about Osborn is that he's a comic book supervillain with a surprisingly realistic level of mental illness. Norman isn't "criminally insane," he's genuinely mentally ill, to the point that it's an active hindrance to his own plans as a supervillain. He's so maniacally obsessed with Spider-Man that it actually turns him into a barely-functional drooler sometimes. It's kind of rare in a villain, and that's what I like about it. You don't always see crazy villains whose insanity is as much of a hindrance as a help.

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whats with the jojo tier hair?

Any reason why he’s so obsessed with Peter? I’m familiar with the Ultimate version where he thinks Peter as a son since he “created” Spider-Man due to his Oz formula. Also, is Oz a reference to something? I can only think of the Wizard of Oz. Not sure how that ties with goblins.

I'm going to assume that "Oz" is just based on "Osborn" because Norman's an arrogant bastard. Also, it's green in color, and the Wizard lives in the Emerald City.

Early on he saw Harry as a dissapointment and wished he was more scientifically-minded like Peter, and encouraged their friendship
After getting his memories back and remembering Peter is Spider-Man, he became paranoid that he'd hurt Harry to hurt him and get revenge for Gwen (while at the same time Peter was afraid that if Norman had regained his memories of being Goblin, Harry was near the top if the list of Peter's loved ones he might target next)
And when Harry developed a drug problem both blamed the other and
And Harry

Basically their relationship just kept getting more and more personal as comic history went on thanks to their shared connection with Harry

>he became paranoid that he'd hurt Harry to hurt him and get revenge for Gwen
Did Norman do something to Gwen before the bridge thing?

>And when Harry developed a drug problem both blamed the other
Who’s fault was it? I ask because whoever it was could be kindred‘s identity. I still think he’s Harry. I also found out that Marvel was going to have had Harry be revealed as the villain behind the Clone Saga before they ditched the idea. Don’t remember the villain’s name but he was some old dude in a breathing apparatus.

>wished he was more scientifically-minded like Peter
So that wasn’t just in the movies?

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Just look at Donald Trump. His idiot supporters bend over backwards to ignore or justify anything bad he's ever done.

^You'd think that the government and the media wouldn't be too happy about a guy who tried to overthrow the government
The government is full of people trying to overthrow the government. Name a regulatory body that isn't packed with people whose agenda is to undermine it.

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>Did Norman do something to Gwen before the bridge thing?
Oboy

Who is more scary Osborn or the Goblin?Its hard to think them as 1 person but for this circumstance he's a rare character that you don't know which personality is worse. I don't think any comic character can top him in that regard

I thought it was the Osbornization of Luthor. Norman was always corporate, Lex wasn’t so until the 80s.

Didn't americans vote for Donald Trump?

>Without having to throw a single punch
> As if they could show punching.

I actually like that Fisk and Norman have at some points gone full political.

>Just look at Hillary and Obama. Their idiot supporters bend over backwards to ignore or justify anything bad they’ve ever done.
Shit, agreed.

>Didn't americans vote for Donald Trump?
>hurr durr muh Trump
Didn’t Europeans enslave the world?

Not really, I've seen Obama voters criticize him when he did stuff they didn't like (like his inability to get a better healthcare plan, all the drone stuff and continuing the Middle East clusterfuck). And most Hillary voters I know didn't really like her that much, they just didn't want Trump. Trump's base on the other hand is 100% all-in on the Trump train and adore him to levels I haven't seen in any politician in America in my lifetime.

I prefer Harry, norman has never topped death of gwen Stacy. dark avengers and thunderbolts could’ve used any other rich boy villain in his role

everything before Dark Reign went away because he wrote a book where he said he didn't do it, and some guys on a congressional committee believed it and put his lesser antics down to the wrong medication, so they made him head of SHIELD

seriously

fortunately it was the US-only version of SHIELD, not the international version of SHIELD that SHIELD sometimes is

Absorbing man can wreck so much shit it’s not even funny, then only thing holding him back is literally “lmao he’s too dumb”

Fuck me I wish we had that instead of
>I was an evil psycho all along! No mental deterioration due to Goblin Serum My wife just abandoned our child one year after he was born LAMO
Fuck Slott.
I'm fine with Norman post resurrection just being the Green Goblin but going back and erasing his characterization is absolute fucking bullshit and Flanderizes him to the point of caricature.
You might as well say his middle name is Eobard and he traveled back in time to replace himself because he wasn't evil enough the first time around

Oh yeah, that retcon of Harry's mom being alive all along was fucking retarded. Why the hell didn't she pop up during the years in which everyone thought that Norman was dead?
Notice how since Slott's run ended, she hasn't been seen or mentioned since. Why the hell did Slott think it was a good idea to do this at the very end of his run and not actually explain anything?

>Not really, I've seen Obama voters criticize him when he did stuff they didn't like (like his inability to get a better healthcare plan, all the drone stuff and continuing the Middle East clusterfuck).
Obama voters loved him and the media allowed him to do no wrong. Ever hear the “no scandal Presidency” meme?
> Trump's base on the other hand is 100% all-in on the Trump train and adore him to levels I haven't seen in any politician in America in my lifetime.
Again you were probably too young to remember Obama’s rise and lionization.

Because Slott is a fucking hack and has made more than enough shit ideas

It's Slotts Sins Past.
With one decision he's ruined Norman FOREVER as a character.
We've had writers before try and say "Norman never cared for Harry all his sympathetic thought bubbles where fakes" the thing with those is that as anyone can tell you memory is malleable. All those incidents had deniability.
If the Goblin was what got resurrected when Norman died (even if he wasn't it could still be a lie) of course he'd say that he never cared but it doesn't change the original stories. This removes all ambiguity and deniability from now on everyone that kept Villainy Kreeping Norman more and more is solidified. Not only can't he go back to being a character after this (the chances of that were very slim) this makes it so he retroactively was never a character. All Norman is can be summed up in one line from now on "IT WAS ME PETER" over and over and over and over and nothing else.

And then after he went crazy and invaded Asgard after blowing up Soldier Field, he escaped from prison, joined up with Hydra, AIM and some more mass murderers cosplaying as Avengers, and then did a press conference where he claimed to be totally innocent, he just wants to save the world and deserves his old job back, and that the Avengers are just meanies. And the media fell for his bullshit AGAIN.

Wait what? She's alive?

Luthor in the 80's was made more like Kingpin. If you read the old Spider-Man comics that Osborn was in before he died, Ditko was slowly revealing him to be malicious (so you would've been right had Ditko continued the story), but after he left, Lee went with the direction that Osborn's criminal tendencies were caused by the serum. See

That was how it was up until maybe the early 90's (I think JM DeMatteis retconned it so that Norman was abusive, but I don't remember if Norman was abusive after taking the serum or before that) but definitely after 1996 when they brought him back again and practically made him Luthor.

Yes, it's just as bullshit as it sounds.
>marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Emily_Lyman_(Earth-616)