Now that the dust has settled, what did you think of Grant Morrison’s Batman run?

Now that the dust has settled, what did you think of Grant Morrison’s Batman run?

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One of the greatest runs.

Best Batman run ever.

I'm still on the fence about that final nu-52 volume. But generally I liked it very much

I still haven’t read it

You and Grant both

I love that last issue but it is very clear that it was motivated by frustration with corporate

one of the worst

Morrison is a talentless hack.

Meaningless boring horribly thought out dribble with hardly a single real human moment in it. That drugged up fucker can't write a coherent story.

Weak start with Damian's introduction but soars to the highest heights when the Black Glove story line picks up.
Batman Inc is really long though and I've never reread it.

Just read it for yourself to find out

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Oh do you just mean Jason? Cause I’ll be honest, the only comics with Jason I’ve read are Death In The Family and the Batman and Robin arc with him. I’m aware of the general synopsis of Under The Hood, but I haven’t actually read it

>Brand new very young Robin shot 5 times point blank and is paralyzed
>Brand new Batman shrugs it off by saying he's a tough kid amirite
>Gordon is absolutely fine with this for some reason
He wasn't even written this useless in the silver age

>Title: Batman
Unfuckingbelievably good. Especially RIP. I could reread this any time.
>Title: Batman and Robin
Good, but not great. If it had Quietly the whole time, maybe it'd be different. The writing here just isn't nearly as compelling as what preceded.
>Title: Batman Incorporated
Not quite at the level of Batman but easily better than Batman and Robin. Has the artwork it deserves, and a brilliant concept. Regrettably, editorial plans re: New 52 compromised the ending.

Overall: 8.5/10

I like RIP getting some love. That's the part I reread the most too.

Yeah I've never quite understood why the majority opinion seems to be that B&R was the peak of the run. I always considered it the lowest point. It's a good concept (Batman as the happy one, Robin as the edgy one), but when I actually read through the stuff I'm just counting paged till I can get to Incorporated.

But hey, that's art. It's subjective.

>tfw I just bought both of these for thirty quid each
Gonna be fun

I really like the opening Quitely arc and I don't hate the rest, but it was hurt by lack of Quitely plus needing to bring Bruce back too quickly.

See, I agree with that whole statement. Opening salvo is great, and after that it's alright. We get along.
I never did say it was bad, I just think it's rather weak meat sandwiched between two very tasty buns.

It is the best Batman run of all time.

I see a lot of people saying it's the best Batman run ever, and I keep thinking of ones I could confidently say are better. Honestly I think the Loeb/Sale stuff is better but is that considered a run? I don't think so. Maybe it should be, it's more than 24 issues. Brubaker and Fraction were on Immortal Iron Fist for 16 issues and we call that a run. Even got an omnibus.
The Loeb/Sale Batman stuff is happening in the mainline continuity, or at least the Batman Year One continuity which is how it was for a long time.

>Does the title of the book have to be one of the two main titles ("Batman", "Detective Comics")
If that's the qualifier, then yeah, Morrison's is the best. Engleheart's Detective Comics and Scott Snyder's Detective Comics that also came. Black Mirror in particular I have a very high opinion of. It easily has better artwork than any non-Frank Miller Batman work.

Chuck Dixon's take on the subject

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>not muh characterization as a criticism of morrison
Duh. All of Morrison's characters become Morrison characters. That's why we're reading his stuff.

It seems like it was meant to be a legitimate change to status quo that DC got cold feet on. The attempt was to “Flash-ify” Batman, in the sense that Flash has successors and multiple people have taken on that identity, as opposed to Batman who is only Bruce Wayne.
Superman and Wonder Woman are basically immortals, so they don’t need to worry about aging, but human heroes like Flash or Green Lantern age and have to pass the torch. Except of course Bruce Wayne
This run was meant to change that forever. Read Batman #666 and #700 and it becomes really clear that that was the intention.
What was that last big Batman story before Final Crisis named? Batman R.I.P. You know what R.I.P. means? It means you’re dead. Not fantasy comic book dead, but in real life dead and buried. Bruce Wayne as a character wasn’t dead in story, but he was going to stop being Batman. Dick Grayson would take his place, Bruce would run Batman Incorporated, and so would start a system where Batman retires and his Robin takes his place.
In the story, all loose ends across Bruce’s career would be tied up. The club of heroes, Kathy Kane, Bat-Mite, the Batman of Zurr-En-Arrh, etc. would be given closure and explanations. With that, readers would be able to read Bruce Wayne’s entire story as an epic that lasts from the Case of the Chemical Syndicate all the way to Batman Incorporated. The story of Dick and Damien would then begin, with Bruce being their Jay Garrick
Of course, DC then pussied out and gave us Scott Snyder’s run, where Bruce remains Batman forever and nobody can take his place

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>Read Batman #666
I don't see this as a grand statement about legacy characters, I just see this as something Morrison likes to do: future stories. He did one as well in New X-Men. They're interesting to read. "What if this run was the last one ever." Because why would you want to read something that is temporary? Hickman basically built his X-Men run off of a future story. Writers should do it more often.

As for the editorial stuff, you can't really believe Batman was going to stay dead, do you? It would have been nice if the Dick/Damian stuff lasted longer than it did, but that was never going to last. That's comics. All you can do is pretend each story is simultaneously real, and make sense of it any way you can. None of this stuff *is* real, after all.

>you can't really believe Batman was going to stay dead
I meant to say retired

Well obviously in hindsight the answer is obvious. Bruce remained Batman, Dick remained Nightwing.
But having reread this whole run recently, I really think the changes were meant to be permanent, in the same way Wally West completely replaced Barry Allen

The answer is obvious even without hindsight. You can't compare Batman to the Flash. The Flash is a footnote in their catalogue. Batman is their brand, and Bruce Wayne is Batman. Bruce Wayne was never going to be gone longer than a vacation and I doubt you really think he was.

Now, if Morrison had his way, you're probably right. And that's why it's best to pretend that that's how it happened. Pretending is the only way to enjoy most superhero comics. They aren't consistent with each other and people that look for consistency are in the wrong business.

>Now, if Morrison had his way, you're probably right.
That is literally exactly what I’m saying. The writer had his intentions and the editorial board pussied out and undid the changes. Are you arguing with me or agreeing with me?

>They aren't consistent with each other
Good ones are, that's just something lazy writers say.

I guess we're just talking.

BO-RING

Saw a video a couple of weeks ago that said that Morrison's run ruined the character and then the guy said that Snyder's run was the best Batman run.
Some people are beyond help.

I guess so

If you place utmost importance on art, I can see an argument for Snyder's run being the best. Black Mirror and New 52 both.
>ruined the character
People that say stuff like this are dramatic and should just be ignored. Usually anything that takes characters in new directions will turn these types histrionic. You see it with the reaction to Tom King.

He did praise the art and character designs, but his main reason for saying that is that it was a "return to form" and that this was the Batman that the movies and games promised.

Was it that "in praise of darkness" guy?
His comments on Morrison's run were so braindead, I usually ignore youtube comments but I called him out on his bullshit.

Yeah that's the guy, he also sucked Miller's dick and for some wierd reason acted like the character was born in he 80s despite the fact that he acknowledges that Batman has been around for 80 something years.

Yet you only started reading in 2008

What?

I haven't seen the video, but at face value, Batman as we know him was mostly conceived in the 80s, that's true. You can look back to the ONeil and Engleheart stuff in the 70s too as beginning the process, but Batman as we know him is Frank Miller and Tim Burton (and then after BTAS). Those three things are more important than anything else.

Ok to be fair to him, Year One is the best Batman story ever written. I suck Miller's dick extremely hard online.
But his comments on Morrison were moronic.

You ever read golden age Batman stories? The 80s were more a bringing back of Batman to his gothic noir pulp roots, not a pure reimagining.

You're right about that and I don't think that many people will disagree; it's pretty much the same with Ennis and Punisher.
The problem, to me at least, is that he pretty much wants everything to be the same shit that Miller did and everything to that tries to do any different from the gothic, angry, violent, creepy Batman "doesn't get the character".

There’s nothing gothic noir about a Batplane being shot down by a 10 foot long pistol, not there anything detective pulp about Batman mowing mutant down with his tank. Batman as we know him is NOT golden age Batman.

Yes he is

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Right. Not Batman as we know him

I felt like I was the scientist who saw the asteroid coming with Snyder and no one believed me.

Every "tentpole" Batman event he brought into the comics promised HUGE, EARTH-SHATTERING revelations and he blue balled the readers every. fucking. time.

>Holy shit dude the Joker ripped his face off, and he knows everyone's identity, and he's going to destroy the city, and he might be an immortal meme.
>lol maybe who knows?

>Did the Court of Owls kill Bruce Wayne's parents?
>lol maybe who knows?

>Did Martha have a bastard son who works for the Court of Owls?
>lol maybe who knows?

It's shocking that the guy got away with it for so long.

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His comics get the best artists. It’s the only reason his name has any brand recognition. He’s the guy whose comics have good art.

>it’s a jasonfag mad that Jason is a bad guy

No it’s not