Princess Bubblegum

I d e s p i s e her with all my being. She is by far one of the evilest characters in show (excluding the cartoon-level villains), but what really makes me dislike her is the fact that she not only gets away with all of it, but gets praised as a good guy. Reminder - she was willing to bring the fire kingdom to near extinction in an event that SHE went out of her way to cause just so she could destroy all their weapons under the guise of helping them so they wouldn't be a treat to her power. She made her people dumb on purpose so they wouldn't threaten her power, and she spied on literally everyone, even her friends, so none would threaten her power. And it's not just that, look at her experiments. Caused the zombie apocalypse not once but TWICE, Thunder warrior'd all her rattleball robots, made Goliad and them handed them off to an inexperienced twelve year old to make her learn stuff, nearly caused colonial genocide on the space people, etc,etc.
She deserves the Charles I treatment.

She didn't just probe the fire kingdom, she straight up created an extinction level event so they would let her into their holy weapons room and used that as an opportunity to destroy their weaponry behind their backs.
It's not just Machiavellian, it's straight up mongol-tier realpolitiks

>design a god-tier end boss villain
>use it as a good side character
What was Ward/Muto thinking?

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I think it's more that no one had ever called her out for it before and being called out made her start realizing she was doing something wrong. Especially because she never tells anyone that she stopped spying on people, she doesn't really try to use it to improve people's opinion on her.

Fire Princess is also a traitor for allowing her to go unpunished. She should have turned her into caramel the moment she got her powers back, even if she didn't know about her creating the whole disaster. People who use a time where your people's very existence are at risk as an opportunity to increase their power are despicable, eternal, unforgivable enemies of the people.

>You don't live in the timeline where bubblegum is the final villain of adventure time, her despotism and zealotry growing too much even for Finn to ignore
imagine

>ITT: Why Princess Bubblegum is the actual villain of Adventure Time

>god-tier end boss villain
She isn’t, and everyone who acts like she is is retarded. She’s poorly written, just like everyone else in AT

Poor writing doesn't excuse the fact she's written as an immoral, unforgivable despot

I'm pretty sure what user meant is that bubblegum as a villain would have been miles better than what she is, an actual good concept for a character.

That’s wrong, and it’s a perfect example of the “That really subverted my expectations!” trend that ruins so much contemporary writing

>Character turning into the antagonist is subverting my expectations
You do know the difference between suddenly turning out to be evil and a show slowly showing someone to be a horrible person, eventually resulting in said actions kicking the person out of the good guy's side?

This is literally NOT an example of "subverting my expectations".

How is it not? “Sweet pink princess turns out to be evil dictator.” Bubblegum is not shown to be evil in the early seasons and there is no event that logically causes a change in her character. It’s flat-out inconsistency

She literally caused an zombie apocalypse in the first fucking episode of the series. She was always shown to be a despot, it only got worse as the series went on.

Hey user, did you know people can act nice and be evil?

Didn't they also show two fire people die as a result of her actions?

So I guess that Finn and Jake and everyone else were just stupid, blinkered faggots for helping her out all those years?

I just want her to get called out for all the evil shit she's done.

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Finn was an easily impressionable twelve year old and Jake ultimately had a shit judgement of people. The rest of the people who help her either do so because of Finn, Jake or Marceline, who is daddy issues personified.

Finn was a young kid with a crush on the older Bubblegum, so he was easy to manipulate. Jake really doesn't give a shit about a lot of things back then. We're talking about the same dog that was fucking around while Finn was kidnapped and tortured by gnomes.

I don't fucking know. I never finished AT. I'm just saying some very evil people are thoughtful and polite. If that's all you've got to determine whether someone is morally righteous or not, then you're an idiot.

How do you judge if someone is morally righteous or not, user?

You know that Bubblegum intentionally kept her subjects as dumb fucks who need to be babied 24/7?

That does sound bad. Undermining others' autonomy is bad. It's so bad, that any relationship made without agency is fraudulent, violating, and certainly nothing to be cherished.

Anyone else find The Thin Yellow Line really interesting for showing how her subjects view her a a scary tyrannical ruler and Finn straight up not trusting her judgement

It'd have been nice if they expanded on that instead of going "actually nevermind, pb is really nice and the guards were just overthinking things"

Especially because she made them dumb on purpose.

I think it was more trying to show how she's changed over the course of the series. At least I think that was the writers intention, regardless of how it came off.

Jake did nothing wrong. Not his fault Finn is weak

>keeps her subjects dumb to prevent dissent or rebellion
>emotionally manipulates a minor into doing her bidding
>interferes with foreign state affairs, disregarding moralilty or lives
Not even Phoenix Wright can defend Princess Bubblegum...

I don't think Phoenix Wright has licenses to operate as a defendant to an war criminal. I mean, do war criminals even have defense? Bubblegum's done some 1984/Unit 731 level shit.

I'm not saying Jake did anything wrong. He just really has a lack of interest in his surroundings or even his health in the earlier seasons.

Nobody said she was, tranny. Watch the first 2 seasons again.

Finn would have helped regardless of if he wanted to bone her or not. Hero code, hello?

If Finn didn't want to bone here there'd be an fairly bigger chance he would see through her very thin veil of being an good person.

>That artist Banana guard mentioned that when the first set of candy people rose against her, she turned them into monsters, was this in reference to her family members like Gumbald or was this another incident that happened completely offscreen?
I'm convinced they made the "reference" just for being mysterious and plot-heavy and then made up Gumbald just to fit the prophecy.
I doubt the conspiracy was in there from the beginning, AT looks as if they were adding "deep lore" later.

Probably her best characterization was from the Enchirideon

But there were crazy ass people with crazy ass personalities back then. Manish Man, Science Cat and whoever he was accompanied with, those asshole pixies. It's why I hate the tone shift they forced onto everyone especially Tree Trunks. Now each one of those asshole pixies have deep backstories about why they're assholes. One's kid got murdered, another has depression and bullies in order to feel good and the other's wife left him. The ones that get forgotten are the ones that didn't have some feelsbait attached to them like Donny, the Slow Love slug and the Businessmen. Kid could get indoctrinated or manipulated regardless if it's a sexy woman or not.

I'm not saying he's retarded i'm saying there's adults and creatures in a D&D world that will take advantage of well meaning people.

This but expand it to everything before the second Ricardio episode/I Remember You. I miss the fun PB. Fun = not good enough these days.

True, Finn would almost certainly be manipulated, but if he didn't get propelled towards liking her more because he wanted to fuck the gum, as he grew up there would be a bigger chance of him realizing she's actually a bad person.
Man, i just wish there was even a greentext or a fanfiction where finn realized she was a bad person. All the ones where PB is a villain are shipfag schizofics about her going crazy and wanting to murder everyone because finn got back with FP.

she needs the guillotine

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>Princess bubblegum gets guillotined to the sound of La Guillotine Permanente
I wish

Brainlet

>pb is actually hundreds of years old, the founder of the candy kingdom, and the only ruler it ever had
This retcon was retarded.

If Joshua stayed alive, I'm pretty sure Finn's assertiveness and intelligence would have been vastly superior at 12 years old and beyond compared to what actually happened. Josh's sharp tongue, blunt attitude and ability to get shit done would seep into Finn's personality real quick.

The writers act as if he's gonna be all fine and dandy after the finale when anyone with their head on correctly can tell he's in desperate need of a good father figure.

I've gotten into countless arguments with retards saying that shit was there from the very start and was in no way contrived and put in place so lesbians could happen.

I don't think she's as much of a villain as she is more paranoid and incompetent.
She destroyed the statues based on a what-if she cooked up and creates a standing army of machines and promptly disassembles them because she realized that creating a nigh unstoppable police/assassin force was kind of dickish.
The weird thing is despite being allegedly a galaxy brained scientist golem that's lived for hundreds of years, she can't make anything with an iq higher than the double digits, lest they rebel and nearly topple her kingdom. That might be why she needs surveillance for her citizens but it still doesn't sit right with me.

TL:DR PB is not evil, she's just paranoid and incompetent. Not that that makes it any better.

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As much as Finn needs an father figure, isn't 17 too late for that? I mean, at that point he might as well just go marry huntress wizard and live in the woods.

Well user, while you are right that she is completely incompetent, some or her acts cannot just be excused on stupidity. Like causing the Fire Kingdom near-extinction event. That's not stupid, that's just evil.

It's never too late for an older guy to put a young lad on the right track. With as many times as this show did the "you never stop growing" thing, I doubt they'd be so sour on someone like Simon teaching Finn a thing or two.

Fair enough, Simon might be a good guy but is he really the best for something like that? I mean, he was crazy for most of his existence and he goes on a journey to save betty after the finale. He's also not accustomed to being in crazy Ooo as a normal person without ice powers. Really, there aren't that many people who could serve as a father figure. The humans seem to have become retarded, none of the ooo humanoids that we know seem to fit the bill and the food people that exist across the kingdoms are, well, mostly food people.

>she can't make anything with an iq higher than the double digits, lest they rebel and nearly topple her kingdom
That's because they'd realize she's terribly corrupt and plans on being an immortal tyrant. The candy people deserve the right to make their own decisions.
I don't get why they highlighted the fact that a dumb candy person could potentially still have independent thoughts as if they had a normal functioning brain, then do nothing about it. PB saw how fucked up it was that Gumbald was a bowl of punch for so many years but still leaves her candy people intentionally dumb?

Actually user, the difference is that Gumball was turned into an idiot. The other candy people were made as idiots. They're literally retarded children, she made them stupid on purpose so she could play nanny and have them dance to her tune. Literally, one of the first things she tells her lobotomized family to do is "DANCE FOR ME!"

>there are Bubblegum sympathizers on this board
Shame...

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Why the fuck did Neddy not squeal once before the episode he was introduced in? I'm pretty sure they've been big enough events that would have caused that retarded shit to stop sucking on that branch. What a dumb addition to PB's backstory he is. He feels even more tacked on than FP's rap gimmick.

itt: cumbrains seething that a character can be morally ambiguous and do questionable yet arguably defendable things without being considered a reprehensible antagonist

also morons who think that “retconning” an initially one-dimensional damsel in distress-type character into have a dynamic, interesting, and entirely plausible backstory is pandering and bad writing

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>arguably defendable things
Honestly, could you tell me those "arguably defendable things", kind sir?

>arguably defendable things
Okay then.
Defend her actions. Explain how they're just "Morally ambiguous" rather than outright evil. Defend them.

Peach >>>>>>>> muh stronk and independent 2010s+ characters

I don't see anything dependable about how she made a competent gumball guard taskforce, but had them all iced because they were too smart and replaced with useless Banana Guards, or, how in a bout of fear for her mortality, made an immortal cat monster who would rule forever only to also have it iced after like a a fucking day.

Like, a lot of the shit she does in the series is just out of fear for her getting overthrown one day, she serves no one but her own self interests of ruling the Candy Kingdom forever. This isn't exactly questionable, it's the stuff you see a villain do.