Was Azula actually beyond redemption or was she merely a product of her shit childhood?
> Iroh: he cared about Zuko more than Azula
> Ursa: called her a psycho
> Ozai: didn't give a shit about her and even when he gave her the title of Fire Lord, it was a meaningless title.
I don't know if she's really fixable. Zuko might be able to direct her in a productive direction, but she'd probably never fundamentally change.
so was her nature inherently evil? Sounds like a pretty bad message for a show which had Zuko being redeemed
Considering that the 4th season was going to be a redemption arc for her, no she wasn't beyond it.
There was going to be a 4th season? Damn, it would have been interesting to see if she could actually be redeemed. They should have made it.
She was an exceptionally skilled warrior in a war. Maybe her skills could be used for "good." Maybe not.
It took her going fucking nuts, along with super rare magical water, along with a whole host of other asspulled shit to beat her.
Someone like that might be better off "broken" and not "redeemed", because goddamn they are scary.
Toph has powers to that level but she's an earthbender instead of a firebender. What's wrong with Azula being redeemed too?
I know Ehasz said he wanted a fourth season but I still think it would be a shitty idea.
Story’s got a pretty clear 3-act structure and the premise is about Aang learning the 4 elements and stopping the Fire Lord. Once that’s done, the show’s over.
Having another season with a different concept about finding Zuko’s Mom and redeeming Azula is the definition of running something good into the ground. It’s better that it ended where it did.
Plus it doesn’t sound like something anyone else was interested in besides Ehasz and judging by the quality of writing on the Dragon Prince, it’s for the best that Nick/Bryke cut the show off at S3.
Hey, I'd write a story about Azula using her pragmatism for good. It'd be interesting, and I think it'd be doable.
But what is "redemption" in ATLA? Aang considers you his bud? What could Azula do? Make up with Mai and Ty Lee? Probably not.
Bryke went on to make Legend of Korra while Ehasz made The Dragon Prince. Considering the quality of both of those shows, clearly they work better together.
I would consider redemption to be the same as what Zuko did. As in joining the Gaang and all that.
Do they even mention Azula in the LoK? Lightning bending is used to power republic city, but beyond that...
Obviously a product of her shit childhood, how is it even a question? She was 14. Her dad was probably fucking her.
>clearly they work better together.
Or at least they did then.
The success of ATLA seems to have been pure dumb luck that they happened to hire all the right people at exactly the right time for them to produce their best work.
There's always the live action Avatar remake. This time it has Asian actors, so that means it'll be good, right?
Is there a single live action adaptation of a cartoon/anime/manga that's actually good?
Only one I can think of is Oldboy.
Edge of Tomorrow was originally an LN.
Sure, I guess that one's alright too, but they're pretty rare.
Seems mainly comics get passable live action adaptations.
Her legs are stumps here
In the next decade or so I think that'll change. Ron Howard is working on a Tiger and Bunny series, and I think he can do it.
Manga is the comic books of Americans born in the 90s. I'm sure some of them aren't total spergs and can make a good movie. The issue is that manga is weird.
Are you implying that a person who's inherently evil is beyond redemption?
The issue is that some things either don't need to be adapted into live action or can't (for instance, something like Made in Abyss would NEVER fly in live action).
Stuff like Oldboy or Freesia or even A History of Violence are perfect for live action because they're relatively low-concept and focus more on characters and their relationships than fantastical worlds or spectacle.
The problem is two-fold in that people will look at the success of Marvel and think that their high-concept weird SciFi stuff will work in live action and also that sometimes it will succeed because China exists and will watch whatever shitty CGIfest turd gets plopped into theaters because movies over there are even more of a glorified theme park than they are here.
She was beyond redemption, but she wasn't born evil or whatever she's just too far gone to ever be able to change into a normal girl she'll never stop emulating her father
>Made in Abyss live action
FBI should get on that. Biggest sting ever
To be fair most seinen manga in general wouldn't fare well in live action due to the abundance of child rape.
Then again, Game of Thrones was made into a live action show, and the books have plenty of child rape.
You are aware of that literally thousands of books have had excellent film adaptations, and books can articulate fantastical ideas in far more detail and complexity than any manga could ever hope to achieve, right?
I disagree. Manga is great at capturing human emotion in the face in particular.
You are also aware that pretty much the only good ones that can accurately and faithfully portray their fantastical source material are the ones with astronomical budgets or more grounded settings, correct?
And even when a director makes a great adaptation of one book that doesn't mean they'll make great adaptations of other books (lest we forget The Lovely Bones).
Azula suffered much. She is beyond saving but she doesn't need to be saved. She needs someone to enable her unhealthy habits and die for her. She needs me.
No, the fact that Zuko managed to get to her and the fact that Azula let her mom live actually shows that she still does care for them. Otherwise, she would've killed her right then and there.
Most Yas Forums shows are black and white. Evil characters rarely get redeemed, they are just naturally shown as evil by nature.
SISP
(Sucker Idolizing Superior Pussy)
The fuck is redemption in this sense anyway?
If she decided to fuck off on some island and just train fire benders as a master as she tries to do for them what her parents failed to do for her would that be "redemption" or does she have to be in the Aang gang?
Like, she's very much the product of her shit family so as long as she stops actively fucking people over I'd see that as growth.
>beyond redemption
She's hot, she's already redeemed herself
bump because I want more Azula tits
Not true at all. The Lord of the rings, Blade Runner and 2001 we're all excellent adaptations of their source material while producing concepts individuals that were worthy of the source material.
Strong, smart and ruthless women need to be worshiped. Too bad (or good?) they doesn't exist in 3D. Luckily 2D has plenty.
If by pragmatism you mean her mouth and by good you mean my dick then yes, I agree
Redemption doesn't have the exact meaning for everyone.
Can Azula become like Zuko in the end, aiming for peace, love and friendship? Hell, no. It would absolutely ruin her whole character.
But she's more than capable, to some extent, to accept her mother and brother (both of who she still obviously loves) and find some new destiny for herself.
The fuck?! She lost 1v1 to Katara in the cave.
Yeah in my eyes "redemption" would just be her not trying to contribute to some violent war and just finding a stable life she wants to live, which is doable
>she merely a product of her shit childhood
Yes.
Going by the show, she was probably born with some questionable traits which were aggravated by her childhood.
Azula did nothing wrong. What is there to redeem?
yeah that's a good point
Her being my Cocksleeve
If you put much stock into the avatar comics, Azula seems to have shifted from wanting to be Fire Lord to supporting Zuko's rule in her own twisted way. She's a work in progress.
I think her redemption would be helping her brother to maneuver political intrigue and deal with threats within the Fire Nation.
Fucknugget.
Her ending was she went crazy because her psychopathic dad-genes were conflicting with her caring mother genes. Her being a prodigy was her way of avoiding her inner turmoil by concentrating on making her perfect in everything else.
So the solution for her problem is lobotomy.
She's a murderer and war criminal.
If she wants redemption she can find it in a cell, repaying society for her crimes.
>Was Azula actually beyond redemption or was she merely a product of her shit childhood?
I mean yes, she was a product of the circumstances in which she was brought up. But the redemption thing? That would depend on how it had been carried out and to what extent. For example, the way Ehasz wanted to go in the so called non-existent 4 book sounded really jarring, with Azula making an ankle-breaking face turn in which she becomes all apologetic and shit. Going by how her character was that is going beyond the humbling and straight into the humiliation/goofy territory. I think that for Azula's redemption to work and not seem like they just reworked her entirelly in a distasteful manner, she would have to keep key aspects that, while not intact, would be mostly there, like her pridefullness.
>Was Azula actually beyond redemption or was she merely a product of her shit childhood?
These are not mutually exclusive.
She was inherently fucked up since she was a kid but that doesn't mean she couldn't have gotten some help by simply raising her to be more humble and not enabling her shitty attitude towards people. The fire lord was her father though and he couldn't give less of a shit about his family. Azula was pretty insecure about herself and needed to vent out against the world to not see her own self as the smaller light compared to Zuko.
>and books can articulate fantastical ideas in far more detail and complexity than any manga could ever hope to achieve
Books are a purely textual medium. When trasitioning to movies, a medium which is inmensely visual, the imagery has a lot more leniency space as to how to adapt it since there are no clear representations of how they have to look.
Manga, comics, cartoons, anime. All of those are inmensely visual mediums, which means that when trasitioning them there's a clear reference to which it will be compared. There lies the problem. It is not creating an image from where there was none, is recreating an image from a pre-existing one, and for it to not be regarded as inferior to the original is really hard.
Toph never went off the deep end. Worst she did was fight in a few 'wrestling' matches.
user, both Blade Runner and TLotR had astronomical budgets, and even 2001 had a famously troubled production that ended up well over budget.
>Considering the quality of both of those shows,
Fuck off
oh boy another cringe avatar thread
I'd say its a bit of dumb luck but also Ehasz did play a massive role in how good it was. THe issue with the Dragon Prince and why it isn't as good as ATLA is mainly because he's held back a bit more.
The concept of ATLA is basic as shit when you look at it from the outside.
>The concept of ATLA is basic as shit when you look at it from the outside.
In its time and for being a show aimed at kids it was something else.
But yes, in essence ATLA is pretty basic. Specially when you look at how surface level it is about all its Asian themes.
I really think one of the biggest things it had running for it in popularity and notoriety was how distictively oriental it looked while also staying familiar enough to western audiences as to not come as incomprehensibly foreign. I don't think the plot of the show would've had so much success if it dwelt in things like Confucian filial piety or non milquetoast Buddhism.
I imagine this "Asian aesthetics but Western values" is one of the reasons why ATLA never became that popular in Asia.