Too much politics in comics?

The difference between then and now is they used to care about writing good stories first and the point second. Now we have people who have no idea how to write a satisfying 22 page story and burying that fact by being allowed to write hundreds of pages of shit always putting the politics first and the story third maybe

It wouldn’t, because the stories did not draw attention to it beyond a character naturally progressing. “Woke” tends to be synonymous with when those types of things are shoved in your face and the dialogue makes sure to let you know how great it is that they did that.

no, because i have read a lot of early spider man and nothing really jumps out as BLACK MAN!!! and more just an older, honorable, dedicated journalist with a natural mentor aspect. there is diversity and then there is LOOK LOOK DIVERSITY!!!!!

A good example of this is the original Secret Society story, where Nixon is pretty much confirmed the leader. It really should come off as stupid and “woke,” but in the context of the story it works because it’s there to challenge Captain America’s perception of being a patriot. What exactly is the American dream when everything that represented it contradicts your perception of the ideal? What exactly does “Captain America” stand for when you basically destroyed the modern foundations of the country you represent? In turn, does Steve represent the country, and ideal of the public, or simply his own ideals? And him becoming Nomad was Steve’s way of soul searching and figuring out where exactly he fits in a world that passed him by, and what his true destiny is.

If it was written now, Trump’s face would be all over the pages and Cap wouldn’t need to soul search because someone would give him a giant speech bubble about evil white men. The execution was the important part.

Nobody complains about politics in comics unless it's politics they don't agree with. I have friends that complain about "woke" games and then gleefully show me some Trump game on Steam.

The difference is time. If this comic was posted today, people would probably complain just as much.

Plenty of comics in the past shoved it in your face but over time they have become classics meanwhile the bad stuff has been forgotten.

>They aren’t.
Plenty of people are angry at politics and see politics as being more of an issue that quality of the writing. Hence my point is that politics has always existed in the past and it is more an issue of writing quality.

>You also say that modern comics rarely mention current affairs, which isn’t true at all.
Give me some examples? A momentary quip is not the same as it being a plot point.

Read some Ms. Tree you fucking pussies.

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>The execution was the important part.
And you're literally talking OPs point that quality of writing is more important than what political "side" someone is on.

>putting the politics first
Where? Give me examples?

>that it happening today shouldn't be a big deal
Actually what I am saying is, the "politics" people are getting angry over isn't in anyway as big as the politics in older comics.

Not really, considering the complaint isn’t about too much politics.

How about all the gender and race swaps they did for the main Marvel superheroes? Or the gun control story they did for Justice League?

Hellcat, America Chavez, Jane Thor, there’s three character runs that were dictated by the message the writers wanted to send rather than the story they wanted to tell

Yes politics exist and writers are people with their own view points and political views but they used to know that the story came first

>A momentary quip is not the same as it being a plot point.
That’s moving the goal post, because that right there is WRITING. Bad dialogue that is used to push a point with zero quality or nuance is absolutely fair game because dialogue is a fundamental part of the issue.

I don't think the problem is that there are too many politics, I think the problem is that politics and the people who follow them have degenerated into tribal warfare instead of even pretending to debate.

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Don’t forget Mockingbird, where it was decided that being raped mean you’re weak so they had to retcon it into her cheating.

How the fuck is Robbie and his position somehow considered "woke"? The fuck is wrong with you?

And most of those runs are how old? America Chavez was cancelled after barely any issues and people are still complaining about them.

The issue is the quality of the political writing rather than too much politics in modern comics.

I am saying that, comics in the past had far more ingrained political stories and a lot of the modern stories are surface level. But the main complaint still seems to be "too much politics" even though the actual issue is quality of the writing. Like bad dialogue not expressing the politics with nuance.

>instead of even pretending to debate
I think the best example of this is a Hulk issue written by PAD? I believe with a character who had HIV and Marvel actually posted pro and anti letters from fans about that storyline in the letter pages.

It's worse when the politics basically undermines their OWN narrative. Simultaneously the trying to have their cake and eat it too without considering that it might break their own aesop. Eg. The recent Star Trek, where they make argument that the Federation is corrupt, secretly evil and incompetent, yet all their leaders are strong, female characters. Or when they tried to make the Federation the Trump expy regarding immigration, despite the Federation supposed to be humanity at it's best, albeit not perfect. It would have been better if the Klingons or Romulans did that.

What I am saying is this:
>Complainers of modern comics say comics are too "woke" primarily because of things like diversity.
>Marvel made plenty of diverse characters in the past in times when media wasn't as diverse.
>If modern complainers existed back then they would most likely have complained about Marvel comics (considered classics now) as being woke for their depictions of minorities.
Get it?

>But the main complaint still seems to be "too much politics" even though the actual issue is quality of the writing.
It isn’t, and we’ve already gone over that at length. That counter point was created to undermine the actual complaint.

It's sad when Metal Gear Rising does politics better than oh say, the recent Wolfenstein game. And Metal Gear Rising is incredibly memey with its cornball antics while the latter is trying to be memey but end up being cringeworthy.

I think Star Trek is a perfect example. Old episodes of TNG are far more political than Picard or Discovery have ever been. But the bland action adventure plot of STD is considered "political" because of diverse cast and what writers have said on twitter. People complain about the politics of STD etc when really it is a bland poorly written show.

The issue isn’t the diversity, the issue is the writing that demand you praise the writer for being diverse. Robbie’s rise as EIC was organic because they didn’t remind you that he’s black or tell you it’s great because he’s black, it happened because he was a well established character that was a hard worker and role model to Peter that deserved it. No one would complain because it was well deserved, not something forced into the story.

I think it's worth mentioning that Wolfenstein mocked Nazis and people were legitimately upset by that. MGR didn't have to deal with the same shit we do now.

>Because in that same post you accuse people being mad about there being politics. They aren’t.
Have you even been on Yas Forums? There are so many Yas Forums bait threads. Of course people are mad about politics. Half of the GG and CG movements are based on the idea of "too much politics in my media" and that all fiction should essentially be escapism.

Diversity isn't the issue, its the presentation and the way its handled you fucking idiot.

It's also because Star Trek of old dared to have stuff that the newer Star Trek would never dio out of fear of being "politically incorrect", which is ironic really.

>Robbie’s rise as EIC was organic because they didn’t remind you that he’s black or tell you it’s great because he’s black
And yet they did. They had storylines about Robbie and his background including his relationship with Tombstone.

Another example is X-Men. In Giant Size X-Men the relaunched team were purposefully made to be diverse to appeal to an internationalist audience. Marvel definitely DID consider diversity. So saying whether or not it was organic or forced is silly.

The problem is you’re taking shitposting as actual criticism.

I've literally been talking about the issues of bad writing, you fucking retard. And there are thousands of people, including people on this board, who consider diversity to be the bigger issue over quality of writing.

Moviefaggots have flooded the site and they're only used to semi-subtle "military industrial complex good" politics in their movies so they chimp out.

Robbie having a background and mentioning the fact that he is black isn’t the same as “LOOK HOW GOOD IT IS THAT HE IS BLACK AND IN CHARGE.” No one is saying they can’t mention he’s black, it’s about whether you mention is because “A is A” or you create dialogue to make sure everyone knows the writer is great for doing it.

Nah lad, it is easy to see what triggers people.

Wolfenstein has always mocked Nazis since day 1. It was never an issue until the last two games. The last game however didn't get much controversy, or attention, mainly because no one liked it.

I wasn't referring to:
> it’s great because he’s black
I was referring to:
> they didn’t remind you that he’s black
Because they DID remind you he was black.

How do you explain Dr Who then?

Have politics in your comics, but don't be preachy faggots about it.

>How do you explain Dr Who then?
What about it? Chibnall, one of the worst nuWho writers, is showrunner and now it is awful?

Fuck off. You're a dumbass who thought people would sperg of Robbie being an editor. What, you think people give a damn about Lucius Fox? No. In fact I think you fell for casual outrage

That’s not reminding you, that’s mentioning it. There is a massive difference.
Mentioning someone is black is natural. It exists, and with each race there will be certain differences in background and perception. The Tombstone stuff and Robbie’s background isn’t anything but that.
Reminding is consistently bringing it up as a talking point or specific reason to like a character. Robbie is one of the more popular ASM side characters because of his character and role, not his color.

What I am saying is complainers who moan about diversity now would have complained about it then. Marvel did plenty of forced diversity like with the X-Men.

You're a retard who can't even read.

You're playing semantics now and our arguments are completely missing each other. I was making a point that marvel has been very diverse in the past and people complaining about modern diversity would probably have complained about such diversity in the past if they were alive then.

Pretty much everything you said. But it represents the real issue with "diversity". It's used as an excuse to mask their shitty writing and to get brownie points on social media instead of having something to say.

It's all so phony and cynical.

>It's used as an excuse to mask their shitty writing
Actually that is what I think. Because older things had plenty of diverse casts and politics. Newer things can be bland but in the marketing use "diversity" as a selling point when it is in fact not saying anything.

So when people complain about modern diversity, really they should be complaining about poor quality products and marketing. I feel like people have it backwards and feel like the diversity is pushing the poor quality when it is really just a symptom of marketing.

Corporate institutions don't want meaningful political storyline which is why they churn out bland diverse storylines which attack politically acceptable demographic groups. It is evil.

FUCK OP AND FUCK COPY-PASTED SPAM THREADS

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This isn't a copy-pasta or a spam thread retard.

>I have friends that complain about "woke" games and then gleefully show me some Trump game on Steam.
I'd say pro-Trump stuff specifically is at least better than anti-Trump stuff objectively because:

a) media is a diversion and escape to real life Anything thats a downer in real life inherently brings that negativity to you via your media.
b) Trump = Hitler is the popular narrative and going against that is inherently rebellious and naughty. sin and mayhem are fun.
c) anything positive about Trump in media usually has a degree of camp or self-aware silliness to it. some people really dont understand that Trump is very much a meme president to his younger constituents, for better or worse. he really isnt someone they themselves take seriously but can align themselves with what he says well enough and so can take the piss in a tongue-in-cheek way at their and Trumps expense

tl;dr:
>anti-trump: standard "ok i guess this is the bad guy
>pro-trump: lol slider game with anime girls wearing MAGA hats

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Nigger I saw this last week.
Spamming cunt.

>Have politics in your comics, dont have comics in your politics

by politics they mean identity politics

In fairness yeah the pro or at least not anti-trump stuff have fun with it like people should.

No you fucking didn't. Stop being so assblasted

Yes, because people want a self aware jokster as the most powerful man on Earth. How dare all those other politicians take themselves so seriously. Totally a rational line of thought.

Not when the cunts make it the driving force.
Intentionally changing characters gender, race, ect.

Are you stupid?

No your just a dumb bint who cannot acknowledge that having diverse characters then vs now is completely fucking different.

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I like to think that little hullabaloo was just people trolling because honestly fuck Nazis

Are you? Robbie didn't get where he is, nor does he make it a habit to point out, that he's fucking black. Go fuck yourself you dumb outragefaggot

just the inherent nature of how being against something is powerful and very serious; but being for something is light and inspring

Well, the ones that take themselves seeiously brought this upon themselves for being two faced jackals to begin with.

>most powerful man on Earth.
do you know how much power Trump had to give up to be president?

You eon't be saying that if yoy played the recent Wolfenstein game. Basically, imagine all the worse things about the MCU, Josh Whedon-esqed writing and Borderlands, multiplied by ten.

This
It also did not help they tried to market it as political.
Because 'nazis are sti.l around guys. The right are nazis so punch em"
Fucking faggots.

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>self aware jokster
You're giving Trump-chan too much credit. and i was arguing why positive depictions of a subject are by nature better than negative ones. Not endorsing a politician

They made it modern political to make a statement.
BJ teams up with black panters, marxists, and now has a father so laughably evil its like a GI joe villian.

>How the fuck is Robbie and his position somehow considered "woke"?

Because it was the 60s and 70s when America still had tons of racial issues. Yet here's a black character whose in a major position of power at a major media powerhouse in the biggest city in the country. You're fucking retarded if you don't see that as going against grain just like making Peter a teenage superhero was huge bucking of trends.