ITT we discuss retcons that should never have occurred. I'll let someone else post the obvious "One More Day" diatribe

>today OP was not a fag
Based. I've been saying it for a decade, Jason adds more to the Bat-Mythos dead than alive.

I disagree, in the end adult Jason was a great addition to his story.

One More Day
Iceman is a fairy
Retconning away Mystique being born a little blue boy
Everything to do with Hickman's current disaaster of a fucking run.

Didn’t the recon the LoSH so that superboy never met them?

>Parallax is a space bug and mindcontrolled Hal Jordan
Making Hal being mindcontrolled by the so called Fear Entity was DC's greatest mistake.
Not only the retcon ruined Kyle's role as the savior of Green Lanterns.
But it ruined Guy Gardner, he was finally having a role that wasn't "Human Green Lantern number 3", he was Warrior, a vuldarian anti-hero, he was finally his own character, we had an arc of him moving on from being a GL and now it's ruined by him being the cocky jerk he was before.
It ruined John Stewart, years passed at him being in Hal's shadow were finally over, he was finally realizing he didn't need a ring to be an hero, he didn't even need a Darkstar armor, he just needed to be himself. For me he could have been a New Guardian of the Universe if we needed him to be "important" again.
Hal Jordan's character arc ruined, he was finally a serious man, he take seriously his job as Green Lantern and after the retcon he went back to being the young reckless asshole as if he didn't learn anything.
And "parallax was the cause of the yellow weakness of the GLs" is stupid if we consider that we already had the explanation of the Guardians puting limitations on the rings for not making the GLs too powerful.

The retcon ruined the Green Lanterns as whole
I don't even care about the other Lantern corps, I just wanted that status quo to not be god.

Attached: parallax.jpg (1038x1600, 737.68K)

They only brought Jason Todd back because Marvel was doing the Winter Soldier story. It was never cool and always a pander.

Adult Jason could have been another character. You can even argue Damien is a better younger and older Jason type character at the same time. Jason served as a cautionary tale as what can happen when youre on Batman's side. NOt just the price Batman pays for doing what he does but also the price everyone else takes on for following his path. Making him some angsty "Killer Batman" is just redundant and has been done to death by better characters.

Totally agree and was waiting for this. Not only for all the reasons you listed which are spot on, but never mind the fact the alternate angle was just dumbed down nonsense after someone pushed the character and all the others, like you said, in one fell swoop. It lifted everything and was logical. A guy pushed to his limits. A flawed hero. The sort of arc you wish they could do with Superman that didnt take place in an elseworlds. Superman being who he is seems like they would have a harder time bringing him to this point let alone walking it back. But here was the perfect opportunity and DC blinked.

Attached: Sins Past.jpg (988x1500, 255.47K)

What pisses me more off about Green Lantern: Rebirth is how Johns wrote John and Guy as being Hal's butt-boys when Hal has been historically an asshole to both and actively ruined their lives.

Damians been in more cartoons as Robin than Jason or Tim by now.

>Adult Jason could have been another character.
No they couldn't, only Jason had this personal conflict with Batman that fans could personally share, Jason got a different and unique relationship with Batman no other character could have.
>Jason served as a cautionary tale as what can happen when youre on Batman's side
Then Batman recruited another Robin shortly after plus accepting more Batgirls, Jason death had no impact in the long run at all, but him being forced to face it all over again and dealing with Jason trauma had, it was an actual arc with closure with Batman even going as far as apologizing and aknowledging his mistakes.

>THE RAPE PAGES ARE IN!

Attached: il_570xN.1187438278_sgm0.jpg (570x862, 161.3K)

The worse retcon from that is the fact that the golden and silver age were only "tame" because apparently certain members of the JL were legit going around mindwiping the villains into becoming less evil or straight up tards.

comiclet here.
What kind of retcon there is in that?

Didio shoud have been fired when Indentity Crisis happened.

A cuck fetishist wrote that arc

Elongated Man's wife was raped by Doctor Light.

After angry debate amongst the heroes they decide to have Zatanna mindwipe him.

Batman arrives just as Zatanna is about to begin, gets fucking angry.

Heroes decide to mindwipe him too.

That's sort of explains Batman's mistrust in general to everybody, deep down he knew.

Also, this explained how some villains went on to have notable changes in personality (Dr. Light himself, Catwoman).

John and Didio are utterly fucking retarded nostalgia faggots.
All of the retcons done to bring back fucking hal jordan away from that fantastic status quo and barry allen pretty much RUINED DCs status quo forever and permanently made them second place behind Marvel.

Who is on every level a goddamned indefenisble dumpsterfire.

This was written by Quesidilla.

Let's face facts folks
No one gives a fuck about green goblin and even fewer give a fuck about gwen stacey.
NONE of the gwen stacey's are liked on any level. None of them.

Those shitty teen titans cartoons that no one likes or even watched?
And no.
Red X has appeared more times then Damian and people like him more.

>second place behind Marvel
They always were though

>No they couldn't, only Jason had this personal conflict with Batman that fans could personally share, Jason got a different and unique relationship with Batman no other character could have.
No dog. Jason's angsty bullshit was his arc with Batman period. That is what got him killed. Form a meta perspective he was a chad asshole who thought he was beyond Bruce fixing. That is the arc. Bruce trying to save everyone and facing the reality that he cant. It happened when he was a kid but then he had the excuse of being a kid with his parents. Becoming Batman was supposed to be the remedy for this to never happen again. So it happening again after he commits to becoming Batman is Life reasserting itself past his fantasy, Jason's arc was being the reckless kid. Again in a meta sense we all wish to be Batman, but at best we are his Robin watching his adventures. That's the reason for Robin. To substitute yourself in there. But Jason showed what happens if you put the wrong person in there. What happens when it isnt Dick Grayson dutiful student. Also in a meta sense it was a commentary on kids thinking being like Grayson was lame at being edgy was the new cool. Well when you lone wolf it you end up on the wrong side of a crowbar.
>Jason death had no impact in the long run at all
Not true. Tim Drake was literally a response to Jason not in just in a meta way but in making Robin cool again. And Tim has arguably gone on to be one of the best Robin's. If not the best. Batman recruiting more people was inevtiable because even Grayson, and the editors, knew that Batman needs a Robin to counterweight him. But he needs the right Robin. Batman's relationship with Tim was predicated on Jason dying and Batman needing someone to prove to him he didnt fail. That he wouldnt fail again. Damien's relationship with his father is also under this shadow, as Bruce sees shades of Jason in him and where that went. He knows how that story unfolds. Again the cautionary tale.

Gwen works great as a woman who died decades ago. As anything else she's shit.

>pretty much RUINED DCs status quo forever and permanently made them second place behind Marvel.
How so? Marvel fucked their status quo and character portrayal consistency to a way worse lvl with Civil War 1 alone with Civil War 2 only making the already massive damage even deeper.

Norman Osborn coming back from the dead.

OMD was worse. The biggest fuck you of them all.

But still, Osborne being alive lead to not only Ben Reilly dying if only to correct Marvel's mistake of saying he was the original Spidey, but that horseshit involving Gwen Stacy having illegitimate children with her boyfriend's best friend's dad too. OMD was the biggest character assassination, but Osborne coming back lead to at least three things being undone and... What was accomplished? Sure the Iron Patriot stuff and Dark Reign/Dark Avengers wasn't a bad idea... nearly two fucking decades later.

They should have given it a rest. Made a different goblin character if Spidey "needs" one of those.

Gwen is another character that should have stayed dead and nothing more. Fuck this "gf in the fridge" line of thinking. Yes that happened but that doesnt mean every time an important character dies and it happens to have a vagina, it means that its a "gf in the fridge" arc. By that logic if Aunt May had died instead of Uncle Ben it would have been poor fuel for Peter to become Spiderman. Gwen was Peter's first love and she died because he fucked up. That's it. That's the tragedy. Short and sweet. It's cruel and vaguely real which is most of Spiderman's more kino moments. Having her fuck Green Goblin actually was MORE insulting than just having her plummet to her death. And now trotting her out as "also Spiderperson" is just uttter horseshit to cover up for the botch they made in this retcon like a bunch of the other retcons they botched with Parker. Fuck. Do I have to talk about OMD? Really? Quesidildo fucking murdered Spiderman for the simple reason he couldnbt stand to see him grow the fuck up.

I'd argue The Avengers bounced back from Civil War, maybe a bit due to the movies. Green Lantern has yet to mean two shits.

Attached: Not Muties.jpg (602x913, 248.49K)

>Doing a "secret heritage" story not once but TWICE with the same two characters

They also bounced back from Marvel Zombies.

All of the shitty writing going on in the comics at the time couldn't hurt what would become the MCU though at some points I'd swear some assholes were trying to do that.

Civil War negative impacts are still felt to this day to almost every single character,Tony turned into a straight up de facto villain since then, character pointless drama everywhere and more absurd clickbait hero conflicts.

Having Hawkworld not just being the new origin for the character, but more importantly having it occur at that current time as a "modern" introduction. The shifting of the continuity and subsequent series of slapdash fixes damaged Hawkman and everything connected to him, which it has never recovered from.

Attached: Hawkworld_1.jpg (400x615, 48.16K)

I feel like the last time Jason did anything that I mildly found entertaining was in Morrison's Batman & Robin. It was kind of fun to see him treating being a vigilante like it was a business and his sidekick Scarlet was an interesting character. His costume in that era was pretty silly though.

It's like four times now,
Miss America/Whizzer
Magneto/Magda
Django/Marya+High Evolutionary
Natalya Maximoff (The Scarlet Witch)/???

Attached: The cow lies_dont trust it.jpg (236x215, 20.49K)

It started even earlier when Batman was given to a writer who had been itching to kill Robin for years. Hell. I wouldn't have mind Jason dying and staying dead if the build up to his death was better and the story better done. It doesn't help that so many stories kept changing Jason's actual character as Robin post-humorously.

Tony has always been a prick though. Tony being a brain who doesnt know when he's gone too far is actually one of his better character traits in terms of complexity

I think part of the problem is that Jason was meta hated by a lot of people. Which shows in a) the way the voting to kill him was split and b) that there was even a poll to confirm it.

Tony is not a prick after Civil War, he's just a villain,stealing genes, causing innocents deaths,supporting children being taken away from the families and then kidnapping and torturing civilians himself, Tony character was assassinated since then, he crossed every possible line and the only reason why he's still treated as a hero is due to the narrative.

I disagree. Without that, we would have never gotten Red Hood and The Outlaws

Attached: Red Hood and the Outlaws.jpg (1200x1842, 231.63K)

What do you mean by meta? I'm confused by how you're using it. Do you mean he was thought to be hated when in reality, it was mostly split?

I think the simple issue was that the writer onboard wanted to kill a Robin and did what he can to push the character into it and later stories with him tried to spin his character different than what actually happened in his run.

You mean the concept the main writer that works on it is constantly trying to ignore so he can focus on his OC characters and Jason being edgy without any rhyme or reason?

By meta I mean that DC knew that Jason Todd Robin was not liked by fans. Older fans liked Grayson and grew up with him. They werent ready for a change as most fans never are. Newer fans weren't crazy about any Robin period. Everyone thought Batman was cool but Robin was seen as a comedy goofer. When you have a character that is unlikeable in such a prominent spot what do you do? You can write them out sure. Or if you're inclined you use the meta hate as a reason to formulate a story angle around it.

The Outlaws again could have functioned with any other leader. Again Damien fits the bill perfectly and more sensibly than Jason. Him trying to prove himself to his father while also pushing the envelope in tactics makes more sense for him than it does for Jason "I am edgy because I got beat with a crowbar" Todd.

>No dog. Jason's angsty bullshit was his arc with Batman period.
No, not at all, Jason personality and interaction with Batman was never meant to end this way and this story show this well by feeling forced like an editorial choice
>But Jason showed what happens if you put the wrong person in there. What happens when it isnt Dick Grayson dutiful student. Also in a meta sense it was a commentary on kids thinking being like Grayson was lame at being edgy was the new cool. Well when you lone wolf it you end up on the wrong side of a crowbar.
This is ridiculous, Dick found himself through countless near death situations and the only reason why Jason got fucked was due to pure back luck. And again his death didn't influenced nothing in the long run at all with countless problematic sidekicks running around with Batman approval, Jason tragedy only had actual impact on Batman after his return when it turned into a constant problem to him and actually made him admit his mistakes eventually bringing closure to both of them.
>Not true. Tim Drake was literally a response to Jason not in just in a meta way but in making Robin cool again. And Tim has arguably gone on to be one of the best Robin's. If not the best.
Tim being recruited was not felt as a response to Jason, in fact at first Batman didn't want to train him due to Jason, Tim erased any impact or consequence of Jason death.

>Nightcrawlers dad being this....this fucking asshole
Seriously anyone else would have worked. Claremont wanting it to be Destiny would have been awesome genre pushing even for today. But even Sabretooth would have worked. Anything but this. It fucked over not only Nightcrawler, but Mystique, Angel and even magical mutant characters like Illyanna and magic characters like Dr. Strange. Even Mephisto get's 4th party shitted on by this. The guy looks like a devil but isnt. He's a mutant that looks like a demon. And there are a race of them. And a race that looks like angels like Angel but they arent angels either. But they live in another dimension. It's just such a load of convoluted shit. Another fuck up by Chuck Austen.

Attached: 1880813-baby_daddy.jpg (500x609, 157.09K)

What are you talking about? The main concept is how those 3 problematic outcasts finally found their place, they start working well together and open themselves to friends, it was a nice and natural progression to all of them.

>This is ridiculous, Dick found himself through countless near death situations and the only reason why Jason got fucked was due to pure back luck.
Exactly. Bad luck. Batman doesnt have superpowers and running around with a cape in a super powered world has consequences. You can occasionally show the risk by having Batman's back broken or something but eventually Bruce has to come back so THEN the edge is taken off. By killing a Robin you show that there is a risk these guys take and it means more that these guys survive outside of an editorial decision for a macguffin to show up and save them.
>Tim being recruited was not felt as a response to Jason, in fact at first Batman didn't want to train him due to Jason
You just literally showed that Jason's death did have a long standing impact. In fact you stated the same thing I did. Tim didnt erase that impact. Having Jason crawl out of the grave did away with any of the weight that came with that. Tim had to prove himself to Batman and had to carry the load of being Robin after the last one died. Having that fucker come back negated all of that.

I think they’re referring to the fact that Lobdell wants to do his own thing with Jason but his editors want him to do another and so there is this weird sense of a perpetual tug-of-war between them.

I thought it was Judd Winick behind it?

>Exactly. Bad luck. Batman doesnt have superpowers and running around with a cape in a super powered world has consequences. You can occasionally show the risk by having Batman's back broken or something but eventually Bruce has to come back so THEN the edge is taken off. By killing a Robin you show that there is a risk these guys take and it means more that these guys survive outside of an editorial decision for a macguffin to show up and save them.
Batman always had consequences, failing to save people (many times important ones) happened before, Jason dying didn't bring anything new.
>You just literally showed that Jason's death did have a long standing impact.
It didn't, it was literally gone the moment Tim was recruited, the moment Tim joined his dangerous missions, the moment Tim found himself at near death situations only surviving due to luck. There was no impact or change, Jason death and replacement was one of the worst things about Batman, the only logical conclusion to this story would be no more robins but of course they wouldn't do that due to marketing.

>Judd Winick
I just don't like Jim Lee's editorial decisons and lumped this one in there as being in his vein of bullshit

The comic still follow it's premise and worked fine.

>Batman always had consequences, failing to save people (many times important ones) happened before, Jason dying didn't bring anything new.
Batman had consequences but it wasnt until this and The Killing Joke showed that those around Batman had consequences as well. Which was the point i was making.
>It didn't, it was literally gone the moment Tim was recruited, the moment Tim joined his dangerous missions, the moment Tim found himself at near death situations only surviving due to luck.
It did because like you said Batman was against Tim being Robin because of Jason. Tim had to prove himself to Batman and the readers. This actually helped him because people didnt see it as Tim replacing Dick as it happened with Jason. They saw it as Tim earning being called Robin and replacing Jason who wasnt liked. You argue against yourself and then say it had no weight while giving the reasons it did. Tim didnt just become Batman's sidekick overnight. he wasnt accepted. And the thing that got him over was the fact he was the anti-Jason. He was cerebral and a detective. Tim has been called the best detective this side of Bruce. Again all of that in light of Jason who was a pair of fists and a lot of mouth.