Why was Dick able to break out into Nightwing and be accepted but no one cares about Tim as Red Robin?

This is the Truth and DC refuses to do it.

>Red Robin
>Dummmb.

Honestly I'd always figured that as he got older Tim would just ditch the cape and tights all together and just become a detective.

>Drake, as stupid as it sounds, is a solid step to get away from the Robin hold over.
Tim should absolutely get a new non-Robin name and identity, but everything about "Drake" absolutely fucking blows, from the name to the generic shit colored costume, it all just sucks.

Attached: New Drake Costume.jpg (637x372, 113.32K)

This

"Drake" is literally just Nightwing-lite they even made his hair look like Dick's

Very different situation. Dick headlined a book that (on the direct market) was even bigger than Batman at the time. Him moving on from the role of Robin had been something played with in the comics for almost ten years at that point, and he was consistently depicted as an adult.

Tim was just a member of the floundering Teen Titans book, he was essentially kicked from the Robin role very suddenly after never showing any sign of having any issue with it or desire to move on in life, and he was still depicted as being in his late teens at the oldest.

This also occurred in probably the single most stagnant period of superhero comics history since the 50's, where new characters and directions are stigmatized, whereas Nightwing came about in an era where new characters and costumes sold books and created a sense of change and constant evolution.

Say what you will, that arc where Future Tim is a nutcase calling himself Savior is a nice change of pace

there are zero good Nightwing stories

Tim legit had like a year into the persona before the reboot
Nightwing was given way more of a chance by DC

kys retard

"Detective Drake" has a better ring to it than this shit

The Red Robin book just didn't get what made Time likeable. Tim was always the relatable Robin who had a family and had to do homework. He was a fanboy that got to be Robin. A good direction would have been to make him more the tech savy Robin so that he had something to stand out from the other Robin's but instead Red Robin was him being Batman 2.0 and only that. It was the series telling you how cool Tim was but the type fans Tim has didn't really like that. They would prefer him being more relatable.

That's because Dan Didio has been a cunt to Dick Grayson for a while now what with the "Ric" bullshit
That's not an argument, Timfaggot. He's been shit since day one
>"But you need a Robin! I was there that night, and I figured it all out!"

He has the same name as a restaurant

>I think he should become Owlman.
Owlman is already evil Batman from Earth-3, try another name.

Attached: tough luck ultradude.jpg (1280x962, 315.17K)

I remember the artist of Red Robin saying that there was going to be an issue that would make the fangirls really happy. So the fangirls got excited and speculated things. What did they end up getting 3 months later? Ra's Al Ghul's sister (?) trying to rape Tim. Because you know, the fangirls just love the main character being sexually assaulted and almost raped by some women whose existence and motivation doesn't make sense.

I think they were leaning to that at the start of rebirth. Tim was thinking about going to college or something & helping people without superheroics. I think he decided that being a hero was the most impactful way of helping though.

It doesn't count, it was an evil alternate future Tim, not regular Tim.

you didnt present any to argue with
>Marysue
is nothing but a buzzword

>Nothing but a buzzword
While true on this board, it kind of applies to Tim's inception. He was created so Batman wouldn't slit his wrists and editorial thought they needed another self-insert Robin for young readers. His origin of being there at the circus when Dick's family died, and piecing together Bruce Wayne was Batman was nothing short of contrived. But ignoring all that, all Tim has ever done is chase a mantle. He wanted to be Robin, then he wanted to be Batman when Bruce retired. He's a sidekick that got put on the titans.

Someone in the Batfamily should call themselves Shrike

There's already like four Shrikes in DC

Fine Magpie then

Perfect. One more and they can form a superhero team.
The Shrike Force

Terrible name for one. A fucking burger joint? Nah. And really, don't half ass it, just ditch the Robin thing altogether.

Also, Dick fucks, Tim sucks. I'm kidding but Grayson is surely way more popular when you break it all down. He isn't as defined by being a Robin as Tim. He's as household recognizable an alter ego as Bruce, well almost.

Screaming Shrikes is a much better name

Before forever evil and the bullshit after, Dick always seemed like more of a Mary sue than Tim ever has. Dicks a super great super hero and a team leader and Batmans favorite and he knows everyone in the super hero community and everyone loves him. Tim is a dipshit nerd who can't even make a relationship work with a girl who was created to love him.

Nah that's dumb. Puns sell titles.

>Tim legit had like a year into the persona before the reboot

2 years, 26 issues. and he was still Red Robin in the new52.
I actually don't think hes ever gone back to being Robin?

Name is bad. Needs something with Spark.

Didn't the new52 retcon him to never actually being Robin? He was Red Robin from the get go I think. So no he's never gone back to being Robin

yea, but the less we speak of that the better.

That's the point. Nightwing, Red Hood, they're all legacies

I always say I love Tim Drake, he is totally my boyfu, I wish I could cuddle with him

Attached: images.jpg (350x350, 24.48K)

Holy shit. This is actually a well-reasoned thing.

Nicely done, user.

a lot of bird related names are taken, Hawk is already a hero, nighthawk and falcon are marvel characters. Im pretty sure someone already has sparrow taken.

I'd suggest we give him the firebird mantel, no one else is using it.

No it's not. It's a fucking dumb idea. Don't drag down Owlman because Tim still can't think of a good original name

But that's his point. Neither Nightwing or Red Hood are original names either. Why is Tim held to a standard none of the other Batkids are?

red robin is a bad name that doesn't disassociate him from the robin role, and neither the name or costume design were original anyway

The name and the New 52

Not only did he lose his solo book after like 15 years, but his personality, history, and costume got fucked to death.

That's a really good idea.

Because Tim sucks and Owlman is a cool character that doesn't need this baggage. Besides, Earth 0 already has an Owlman, and it's Lincoln March (technically). Furthermore, you got that entire Court of Owls bullshit making the theme synonymous with villainy, which if you're going to rework it as a hero thing it arguably makes more sense for Dick given that he was originally being groomed as a Talon.

Regardless, any way you slice it its a fucking dumb mantle for Drake. So you can put it to bed.

yea, because he took the Red Robin name and costume from Jason Todd

>Because Tim sucks

Okay, so you've been angry at a fictional character since the 90s and will hate him no matter what happens.

>Earth 0 already has an Owlman
How are you still not getting that that's the point? Krypton had a Nightwing, the Joker used to be Red Hood. The logic of choosing Owlman is that it is a legacy title.

Also Dick was the orginal owlman, when he got aged up in a golden age story

He has a point about The Court of Owls being a thing and Owls being associated with evil tho.
I support 's idea of just using Flamebird, no one is using it anyways.

Because when Wolfman and Perez adapted the Nightwing identity for Dick, they took the time to make it suit him+He had a fairly strong run of appearances throughout the 90s, along with his Teen Titans appearences to fall back on, who have only grown in importance since the launch of Teen Titans & TT Go

Tim, on the other hand, got stuck with a 1:1 copy of Kingdom Come Dick's costume, and the team he hung out with (Sandsmark, Kon El, Bart Allen) have all been fucked around with to the point of irrelevance in the post New 52 world

Attached: 1c20e54fc508c0bd74f11307214596de.jpg (600x792, 64.66K)

Didnt Bette Kane show up in Tec wanting to be Flamebird? I think she has dibs

True that. Should make a separate thread in a couple of days asking what name Drake should take in keeping with the legacy thing. That in itself is an interesting topic of discussion. What other shared elements do the Red Hood and Nightwing identities have?

>Okay, so you've been angry at a fictional character since the 90s and will hate him no matter what happens.
Where did that come from? Don't start strawmanning me because I'm not on board with the idea, pal.
>How are you not getting the point?
I get the point, I just don't think it's a good idea. Simple as that. Hell I put more stock in the Flamebird shit like states.

>Where did that come from?

you're in a thread talking about Tim and just keep saying TIM SUCKS...

I gave my reasoning, which apparently you chose to ignore. You're more than welcome to go back and reread the thread. Look I'm all for brainstorming better names for Tim, but don't go being asshurt about someone not sold on your idea. Okay?

I have no skin in this game friend, completely different user than the one throwing out ideas, just saying if you're going to talk shit about a character in a thread about that character, its going to look a little weird on your end.

>if you're going to talk shit about a character in a thread about that character, its going to look a little weird on your end.
Oh I'm sorry, was this a circlejerk? Pardon, I thought we were discussing the character, both good and bad, and what he needed to do to improve.

>Dick got it from Superman
>Jason got it from the Joker(?)
What would the equivalent of that be for Tim?

well he did get Red Robin from Jason/Dick

>Didnt Bette Kane show up in Tec wanting to be Flamebird? I think she has dibs
I don't remember it, but I believe you, when was that?

Thematically? Wonder Woman, assuming of course we make Joker the stand-in for Batman in this trilogy analogy.

Maybe during the end or epilogue of the Gotham Knights stuff. I read it a months ago but can't remember exactly where. Bette says she wants to help Kate out and be Flamebird and Kate tells her to stay in school instead

I was thinking more of "Someone who isn't Bruce but also influenced Tim in a big way" like how Supes helped Dick with the Nightwing name, and how Jason came back as Red Hood after the Joker killed him.

Realistically we just need to wait for Diana to kill another villain to free up the name for Dick. Then it still works and we dont have to call Tim Wonder Woman

Grayson
Batman and Robin. Yeah he's batman there but it's still dick

Well the only other hero that comes to mind in relation to Tim is Spoiler. Well that and.....Jean Paul Valley? How about this; Tim goes all Catholic, calls himself "The Cardinal" which would have dual meaning, and we get ourselves a Daredevil knockoff.

What about just Redbird.

Ra's Al Ghul?

>The Cardinal
A really cool name that would be gay as fuck with Tim using it

Red Eagle?
Sparrow
Why would that be?

That's his car. You can't steal your own car's name dude.

JPV, Huntress, and Tim "The Cardinal" Drake form the Christian Vigilantes

Drake is better than Red Robin

itd be better if it wasn't just his name

Birds are gay. You want Tim to be memorable and unique? Give him the the mothpill and let him be DC's Mothman

Attached: 1bc148394546906f55948c7.jpg (1280x1723, 568.8K)

Have him take Ra’s’ possibly sarcastic “Detective” nickname? ‘Tec then becomes his book for a year or so, with a big emphasis on actual detective stories, until DC declares it another failed experiment because Tim is cursed.

how is Tim cursed?

Damian is lowkey being pushed as Ra's substitute.

Having a 15 year solo run is bad dude I mean come on

Push Tim as Damian's Talia.

How about trying to do a play on "Drake". Other names for "Drake" or "Dragon" I have a couple ofsuggestions.

>Wyvern?
>Red Wyvern?

The next alternative would be to have him go back to Robin for Batman and have Damian become Nightwing's Flamebird to follow this suggestion. But that means forcing Betty to give up the name and she already gets the short end of the stick as it is. And I've always wanted a Dick and Betty Nightwing and Flamebird series. I know I'm probably the only one.

Tim is named after a duck right now
Tim is a duck

>evicted from Robin by demon child who no one even liked at the time
>barely got 2 years of trying to build something new for himself before the reboot came and burned his entire history
>New 52 Teen Titans. Just, all of it.
>Fake death for the sake of getting a dead Robin bingo
>DC backtracks on Red Robin’s costume before just throwing the past decade out entirely
>DRAKE’D
He’s had a tough time lately.

Well there is already a non earth 3 owl man who featured heavily in batman reborn era outsiders

> Furthermore, you got that entire Court of Owls bullshit making the theme synonymous with villainy, which if you're going to rework it as a hero thing it arguably makes more sense for Dick given that he was originally being groomed as a Talon.

> After Dick Grayson takes up the mantle of Batman, he gives the title of Robin to Damian Wayne, claiming that Robin is a student of Batman and that he sees Tim as an equal. Tim begrudgingly accepts.[5] Tim goes on to tell Spoiler that he will be leaving Gotham for an unspecified period of time.[6] He is now the new Red Robin—an identity that is already tarnished and independent of the Bat-family

Tim was the most popular Robin with a long running book, Damien was a mistake like Batwoman.

Tim is generally lacking in a lot of areas
Dick is the first, and found his own identity
Jason is the one who went Dark, and is closest to the edge of villainy
Damian is the true legacy of Batman, and as the youngest has the most potential
On the surface, time doesnt have anything as striking as the other Robins.
Even his name, Red Robin isnt much. Hes not a Robin, but hes clearly not anything other than a Robin either.
I'm sure when you deep dive into the character hes got his own complexities that distinguish him but to sell him like Nightwing he needs something surface level that can quickly be shown off.

Tim should be the flipside to Jason, rebelling against Batman not by becoming a more brutal vigilante, but by becoming a more legitimate legal figure. Cop, DA, Private Detective, whatever. It makes sense when you realize all the hell that being Robin has rained down on him. There'd have to be a point where he says "Look Bruce, all this costumed vigilante shit just gets people hurt. I'm not a part of it anymore."

>There'd have to be a point where he says "Look Bruce, all this costumed vigilante shit just gets people hurt. I'm not a part of it anymore."
But Batman didn't want another Robin after Jason's death. It was Tim that barged into his life saying that Batman needed a Robin and pretty much forcing Batman to make him one.

I liked Red Robin Tim era. It was fun seeing him grow into his own. I’ve always liked Tim the most, he’s the most Batman-y of the Robins. Brooding detective is his thing. Plus he’s hot.

Killer Moth would be so pissed.

Smartest thing I've read all day. Dick and Damian worked perfectly in 2009's Batman and Robin. Batman and pre-New 52 Red Robin would be the most efficient Batman duo ever.

Found it, it was actually the issue where Tim came back from being dead and rejoined with the group.

Attached: Bette wants to be Flamebird.jpg (1008x1546, 599.67K)

Robin's Best to worst

1. Dick
2. Damian
3. Jason
4. Stephanie
5. Matt
6. We are Robin
7. Tim

>Damian should be Nightwing's sidekick.
This. They have a much more interesting dynamic that doesn't just round back to Bruce being a shitty father

0. Carrie Kelley

The only noteworthy things about the run was Marcus To the twinkmaster being the artist and Tim gushing over Conner while other women in the comic were gushing over him. He was like an autistic bisexual harem MC.

Just call him fucking Sparrow or whatever.

Besides, Dick was a cop for a long time. So cocksuckers like would just say it's Tim imitating Dick.

N52 did retcon him into never being Robin, but Tynion 'Tec retconned his old origins back, so he was Robin again.

Have Tim and Steph retire from superheroics and help the Batfamily as Mr. and Ms. Oracle instead.

Red Robin is Tim still under the shadow of the Robin identity.

Dick became Nightwing to honor both his mentors, Superman and Batman, while also moving away from their shadows. The Nightwing identity was used by Superman to be a vigilante in Kandor while not having any Super Powers, imitating Batman. He symbolized the person Dick wanted to be, a Batman that never forgot how to smile.

Jason chose the Red Hood persona as a sort of poetic “fuck you” to The Joker and to Batman. As opposed to Dick, who did it to honor his mentors, Jason did it as a symbol of defiance, which meshed with his character well. Red Hood is the mask of Batman’s greatest enemy, as well as a symbol of Joker’s past; something Joker hates.

Tim just put “Red” on his Robin name.

If he’s gonna go in his own, he better have something that embodies who he is, while also either honoring his mentor or telling him to fuck off. Tim becoming someone like Sandman, Grey Ghost, or whatever seems like a good idea. He needs to explore his Detective Roots, as that’s one of the only traits he has that makes him outright better than Batman.

This.

Tim was Batman’s best Robin. He’s the one who also needed to FORCE Bruce to let him inside the nest. Unlike Dick and Jason, who were taken by Batman for him to “heal them”, Tim became Robin to “heal” Batman.

Or honored.

The only time Tim was good was under Yost. And even then the name sucked ass.
Although the new one is even worse.

He should take Wingman since Jason isn't using it either

Nah timfag....Tim Drake sucks.

Tim Drake is shit.. He's ALWAYS bitchin'. He bitched to become Robin...He bitched when Jason came back to life...He bitched when he thought Jason killed Dula Dent...He bitched when Jason was Batman...He bitched when Jason wanted to kill the person who stole his Red Robin costume the first time...And he bitched EVERY time Jason kicked his ass.

4Damian Wayne already beat him up. He may not had won the fight to others, but if a 10 year old does that much damage to ANYteenager in a fight...The 10 year old won.

I hate him...I hate him-I hate him- I HATE him.

Fans of Tim's make it even easier to hate him because of the stupidity they bring to arguments about him.

Damian wasn't the only 10 year old that beat Tim. A another one put him in the hospital.

1. Red Robin is a shitty name

2. Dick becoming Nightwing happened in New Teen Titans, which was DC’s hottest book at the time

3. Dick leaving the sidekick role was something that had never happened before

4. Morrison clearly didn’t care about what happened with Tim after Damian takes the Robin role.. ie Morrison was more interested in making Dickbats and Damian as Robin work than making Tim as Red Robin work. This is contrasted by how Wolfman put a lot of care and thought into Dick becoming Nightwing, and Jason was created by Conway in response to this (which is why pre COIE Jason was Dick clone), literally the exact opposite of what Morrison did.

Steph can never retire. Harper Row on the other hand...

Bonus leaves cute little moments of Cullen crushing on Tim.

All Robins are created to be an opposition of the one who preceded them.

Dick gets a pass in virtue of being the original kid hero/sidekick. He created the role and he's that slice of white bread that goes with anything.

Jason's the 80's remix, he's a stark contrast to Dick and it was fresh at the time too. Even now, his attitude and origin appeal to a niche and an audience that would never be able to relate to the like of Bruce, Dick, Tim or Damian.

Tim was built in opposition to Jason and to be pushed as the ultimate robin as such he resembles Dick, without the originality. The one thing he had for him, being your average boy next door and a fanboy that get to live the dream, got warped over the years as 1)Tim become a cheat code, 2)current decades aren't kind to the tropes he embodies.

Damian is symptom of a franchise that has run for too long and the son of *insert titular character in*. He was created to be Dick's robin and tiny Bruce Wayne. He's redundant when standing next to Batman.

>Tim hasn't find a niche he can stands on atm

Jason was literally a Dick clone - origins and everything - up until the moment he died. Him being the edgy robin is one of the many retcons that involve the character, your theory sucks.

>Jason was introduced as the tire's thief and street orphan by the guy who wrote DITF
>Red Hood is based on pre-crisis Jason
Keep quiet if you don't know what you're talking about.

Do you even read comics?

Red Robin is a stolen identity and the costume is shit.

the fuck are you talking about Red Robin was kino

I stopped following DC comics with New 52.
To me Tim is Robin, like how Damien is Robin and how there are 2 girls dressed as batgirl plus one more who may or may not be in a wheelchair.

Wow 12 issues of kino followed by 9 years of being utter shit that DC doesn't want to touch

No one cares about Tim because he's not iconic like Dick, and he didn't get killed like Jason. He's just another body filling the Robin suit, and if he isn't doing that he serves no purpose.

>he wanted to be Batman when Bruce retired
He never wanted to be Batman,.

Cass wanted to be Batman.

Delphi.

It's both programming-related AND Oracle(Babs)-related.

Works even better with Steph becoming a new Oracle for Tim's personal use.
The Oracle of Delphi.

This.

Steph belongs in a body bag

Been there, done that, got the free t-shirt.

Attached: birdsofprey99-015.jpg (834x677, 770.63K)

For good this time

Attached: 442C4BFB-71B3-489F-8CC5-6886DD9F9CBE.jpg (1031x993, 263.5K)

>In life: “Next time make sure you break her jaw.”
>In death: “She was a beautiful, sweet girl.”
Kek. Classic Babs.

Attached: F94E4635-277C-47F1-BC60-771B94DC064E.png (498x178, 203K)

this, she’s a waste of space clogging up the batfam

Arthur please. You lost. Get over it.

She's a good supporting character and foil. She brings a lot of good to Tim, Damain, Harper, and Cass.

>acknowledging harper at all

>Harper
She gave Harper more than support, she gave her an entire fucking personality. And then to contrast her against traits that were already hers in the first place, they turned her into something else entirely. And then, to salt the wound further, after leeching her of everything that made her likable Harper just fucks off forever and leaves us with an empty shell of a Stephanie and no one else filling that personality niche. Sigh.

Attached: 6C2D1EA6-2628-46FD-AD19-0C15DE45B0F2.jpg (290x295, 41.61K)

One of my hopes for Young Justice is that Steph goes back to her old personality now that she isn't dead, Tim isn't dead, and there's no Harper around. But of course
>Bendis
So who knows what will happen.

>no one cares about Tim as Red Robin
Because he needs a name which isn't Robin.

Well I might have been black bat's appearance in the same series of issues

Once Bendis said he was adding Steph and the other hanger ons besides Cissie, I knew the series was beyond dead.

If she's not going to be Batgirl I don't see the harm in sticking her in a team book. But the roster is incredibly crowded as of the last issue so I wonder who they'll cut.

Shoulda stayed Teen Titans Robin. The cartoon did more to make 'Robin' a solo figure than anything else and people generally accepted it as a standalone name instead of assuming it's a sidekick slave. Red Robin was missing the point entirely

Nah she doesn’t belong there. Stick her in Outsiders if you must.

I'm just hoping all this build-up with her dad actually goes somewhere.

Attached: timthumb.jpg (588x903, 284.24K)

True that would be a better option. I see your point.
Let's temper our expectations

Plenty of people care.

Because they rebooted him with New 52 and ruined everything that people actually liked about Red Robin

He should become golden age sandman

Attached: s-l300.jpg (199x300, 15.08K)

Sand has dibs on the mantle.

then the question.
or make something with a detective appearance.
make him unique.

Maybe in principal, but not so much in practice.

This.